The Gaza War's Double Standard

The following OP addresses the fact that the apparent, surface-level logic according to which Israel has functioned throughout the Gaza war—that dangerous ideological actors need to be eradicated at almost any cost if it means ensuring safety and societal stability for one’s own people—is rarely flipped. When it is flipped, it bends heavily toward favoring Palestinian resistance groups, but because of a bigoted double standard those groups’ resistance is delegitimized, and a destructive cycle is enabled. If we want to undercut this double standard and prevent the annihilation of the Palestinians, we must affirm their right to armed resistance.

There seems to be a bifurcation describing the dangerousness of one’s ideology when taken to extremes and its level of responsibility for any given action one might take. I don’t see anything fundamentally different between Israel’s worst actors and Hamas’ worst actors with regards to either of the prongs of that fork as they have functioned in the conflict since and including October 7th. For example, both have employed terrorist tactics or committed terrorist acts, which are clearly intentional and destructive. Does that mean that Israel should be put under siege and its population starved and bombed at will? No, that would be evil and fruitless. But, with almost complete control over the other’s population, which side has committed so many war crimes that many people have stopped paying attention? We know, without a doubt, that Israel is committed to following through on its declared intentions. The Palestinians, although they seem to largely believe that armed resistance is justified, probably mostly want the suffering to end. However, if picking up rifles brings them closer to self-determination, which is, admittedly, a somewhat dubious assumption, then who are we to condemn them for doing so?

While many may believe that there is limited moral complexity to what is happening in Gaza, the multitude of factors that caused, and the events leading up to, October 7th are indisputably part of a complex history. Furthermore, many of the actions the Palestinians or Israel could have taken leading up to October 7th could have been justified depending upon when one starts the clock. Thus, it seems to me that it can be said that the attack on October 7th, if designated as our locus, was not wrong because it was an act of violence—it was wrong because it was an act in which civilians were targeted. Not every act of resistance is justified, but the Palestinians had a right to do something in light of the occupation; and if Israel has a right to defend itself with overwhelming violence after October 7th, the Palestinians had a right to abandon peaceful protest when it was met with sniper fire. The same standard applies even more strongly when faced with genocide, a juncture at which armed resistance becomes unequivocally justified.

To explicitly state the core inversion that supports Palestinian resistance: even if one denies the genocide, if one remains committed to the validity of Israel’s foundational logic—that dangerous ideological actors need to be eradicated at almost any cost if it means ensuring safety and societal stability for one’s own people—one is also arguably committed to accepting the position that the Palestinians have an overriding right to engage in violence. This is because that same logic can be invoked in support of the position that the Palestinians can retaliate against threats associated with the continuing occupation and concomitant war crimes at any juncture and with almost any degree of violence given the right people are being targeted; furthermore, it follows that Israel’s logic fails to justify excessively violent responses on Israel’s part to most of the actions Hamas fighters and Palestinian resistance groups might take because of the fact that Israel’s people are not continually or directly threatened with any significant challenge to the stability of their society or anything even approaching it by those groups at this point. Hamas’ military wing simply cannot launch more October 7th’s if their capabilities and leadership are significantly degraded by the war and there are sizeable “buffer zones”. Thus, if one continues to assert the validity of Israel’s purported guiding logic, one is committed to acknowledging that the Palestinians currently have an unchallenged, asymmetrical right to armed resistance.

If you would object to an end to the genocide (or general mass murder) of the Palestinians or would’ve since it became clear a genocide was occurring, because some Palestinian men are, and have been, willing to engage in armed resistance, then consider the reasons behind that objection. The Palestinians themselves exist alongside an actor—a rogue state—that has made it clear that it will not live peaceably alongside them. Indeed, Israel has done everything it can to avoid an end to hostilities, which makes sense when considering the plan to consolidate Greater Israel. So then why is armed resistance wrong when the Palestinians do it? Is it their ideology? Is it their skin color? Regardless of the potentially dangerous beliefs of Hamas fighters, they pursue a goal largely grounded in concern for their own people, even if terrorist attacks like October 7th cannot be justified. Furthermore, if there is any doubt that racism could map onto the conflict in a meaningful way, there appears to be a devastating cycle enabled by bigotry: Israel shuts down every attempt at lasting peace while maintaining the hellish conditions that cause Palestinian men to turn to arming themselves and then certain actors including Israel use this continuing resistance to justify policies and actions that are destroying the Palestinians (that is, if any sort of justification is given at all). Given the men doing the resisting have brown skin and/or are Muslim, the resistance appears to be unjustified in the minds of many—otherwise the cycle would not find traction. And while it has limited explanatory power with regards to Israel’s motives and strategy, the general disregard it requires for the humanity of Palestinians is boundless. If we want to end this depraved cycle, we ought to support the Palestinians’ right to armed resistance. Affirming their humanity when the opportunity arises is also good.

My own impotence in the face of the atrocities being committed in Gaza has made me ask: what sense is there in having developed moral faculties if we do not have the wherewithal to act on our convictions? Is human nature made of elements so disparate and contradictory that this conflict between what we know should be and what we actually decide to try to bring about, is necessary? Are these even coherent questions? Israel appears to entertain no such philosophical quandaries. We know what Netanyahu and his cronies would decisively bring about given the opportunity to follow their policies to their ultimate conclusion: a crystal-clear example of ethnic cleansing (i.e. a step towards the establishment of Greater Israel). Perhaps unsurprisingly, an impossible, and in some ways arguably undesirable, peace plan has been implemented that puts the conflict into stasis until the destruction can be resumed at the previous scale at a later date. The West Bank will likely share a fate similar to that of Gaza. Few of us want this. Why don’t our leaders fight it harder? Why are they so spineless?

Once again, Israel’s maximalist logic, when inverted, should favor the Palestinians when considering the occupation and genocide (or systematic slaughter)—but few take up this reasoning likely because Hamas’ and Palestinian resistance groups’ resistance is delegitimized according to a racist double standard. That this obvious double standard is never broached by our politicians, or really much of anybody mainstream, indicates that even among those who are purportedly well-informed, there is little understanding of the depth of the moral sickness afflicting Israel and its policies. The cycle of resistance to destruction I wrote about earlier is just one way in which racism manifests and might function in the real world, but it also seems to have not-so-covertly saturated a large portion of the discussion itself. Given the way some people talk about Muslims, it is a relatively uncontroversial inference from something like “Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas” to “Muslims that choose to believe in bad ideas are themselves bad for choosing to believe in those things and acting on them” so long as one entertains even a barebones idea of agency. Clearly this reasoning does not excuse what is being done to the Palestinians, although it is sometimes, absurdly, provided as proof of such. I don’t see many ways of explaining that other than racism. And while I don’t think all of our politicians are racist, I do think that if we were to put forth and defend a more principled view of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians—which includes unequivocally supporting the Palestinians’ right to armed resistance—we could better motivate them to represent their constituencies instead of foreign governments.

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Your opening sentences are inflammatory and the basis for the question is bogus. Example:

That is expressly not what happens in the discussion around Palestinian “resistance”. The actual resistance of the Palestinians comes from the sliver of hte population who do not support a theocratic, violent ideology which has lead to the overall torture (read metaphorically) of their entire society, precisely because of that support. Those Palestinians complain publicly and are largely ignored. But are you aware that more than 70% of Palestinians supported 10/7.
There are also some interesting underlying positions that lead to these results: Palestinians are extremely reticent to accept that Hamas killed civilians or committed atrocities. They are indoctrinated and their information ecosystem is tightly controlled (ala North Korea with an appetite for bronze-age conflict). So there is a spanner: Lots of these people are simply not aware of the extend of hell Hamas visited on Israel, and has done on several occasions. It’s been proven that Palestinians stage literal propaganda videos to garner sympathy in areas that are militarized, covered in military personnel and has been designed for the exact purpose of getting the types of takes in this thread going. That does not mean they are wrong. It means it is highly, highly unlikely they are right. We have evidence of counterfactuals to them.

Israel quite literally responds to theocratic attacks, in the vast, vast majority of cases (not all, obviously). Does this mean full-scale support for Israel? Nope. Does it means the optics are good? Nope. I couldn’t care less about Israel beyond it’s treatment by and of its neighbours and it is always going to look bad when a wealthy, well-equipped nation defends itself. Whether Israel is morally correct or not. It seems to me clear your premise is undercooked - probably leading to the thread being unhelpful as to your actual aim. Which I doubt is a dressing down of your position.

You seem to have come to some extremely dangerous and unsupportable conclusions. Palestinians who support the theocratic terrorizing of a neighbour nation on a bogus historical basis is not something we should support, encourage or do anything but condemn. Given this is a totally rational, if not accurate (I don’t know) view, your conclusion cannot be right.

This doesn’t provide any principles.

This is true of all bad ideas. Any person who is Muslim and accepts that beating your wife is correct is a bad person. There’s no wiggling around religious bigotry. Rejecting it is nothing but being a reasonable citizen who doesn’t want invasive, dangerous ideologies around them. Profiling people is not about avoiding them its about avoiding the result of their beliefs. And yes, lots of people are stupid and don’t get that nuance - they just land on “bad person”. The result is the same. I don’t see what point is being made here, unless you’re trying to say we should respect shitty, dangerous beliefs simply because a human holds them.

This is perhaps the grossest, and least tenable take of your post.

Hamas routinely maims, kills, rapes, shields-with and starves their own people. Israel actually sends aid, warns about military operations and has killed next to no civilians even by Hamas’ own claims. Palestian “resistance” is not justified because of several reasons:

  • There is no geopolitical claim they can use to support military action;
  • They are a theocractic government waging a religious war which can never be justified;
  • Their actual aim is genocide. Literal, unadulterated genocide. By their own words. It’s extremely saddening to have seen evidence of these realities and know there are well-educated people out there throwing these takes around. Mikie was potentially mentally unwell. This seems extremely well-written and coherent. Strange…I would also suggest that when we have activists for Palestine almost daily committing violent acts outside of the middle east with a view “supporting resistance” you have to get your head out of the ground before assessing the basis for such. The incredible rise in unprosecuted antisemitism and islamic violence is bizarre too - the tendency to pretend that when two Islamist men open fire on Bondi beach that this has nothign to do with Islam is, quite frankly, absurd. Utterly preposterous. It’s like saying the Holocaust had nothing to do with the Jews (conceptually).

Bro, that was not serious. Your interpretations of what I am saying are beyond uncharitable. When you mention, for instance:

You fail to include the part where I say that it doesn’t justify what is being done to the Palestinians, and to believe that it does requires some sort of pathology. I mean, do you think there are no innocents in Gaza just because most of the Palestinians supported October 7th? You would be agreeing with 64% of Israelis.

Yes, this is true, but we don’t blow him and his whole family up just to get at him or because they happen to belong to a particular group of people residing in a particular area of the Earth.

You can stop adding things to your post because I don’t think I am going to engage with it any further. I’m not going to sift through that to find whatever small nuggets of rational thinking that exist that I might be able to respond to.

You are choosing to not engage with full explanations behind objections to your position. Can you see why this is seen as somewhat an issue, given the OP? I just disagree with the premises and gave full thought to my answers.

It is obviously up to you what you do, but if you were not up for engaging with positions and arguments directly related to your OP, what was the point of the thread? Both of your criticisms above are in bad faith and it’s simply not good practice to be as dismissive, non-engaging and needlessly combative as you are being here. The hyperbole makes it difficult to know if you’re actually charging me with those positions (which in principle I agree would be problematic and require some explanation) or if you’re maybe not wanting to get into a discussion and that’s one way around it.

In either case, is it not unclear whether you’re wanting a discussion? I think so.

Let’s try to keep this civil.

Is it bogus to not want to be driven off of one’s land and then murdered in a tent-city on the edge of a desert? Is it bogus to resist the forces that have flattened every hospital, school, and home in your city? Do you really expect none of the Palestinians to violently resist being cleansed? I notice you have not objected to the inversion of Israel’s logic. If that stands, the occupation and accompanying war crimes definitely do justify armed opposition. We can argue, however, about whether or not racism is involved.

If I had lived my whole life in a concentration camp—as Gaza has been called by noteworthy observers—I’d also probably be hesitant to condemn something like October 7th. Do you know about the humanitarian minimum? Israel only let in enough calories for the Gazans to survive for years.

I think that any individual that is maimed, tortured, or otherwise not instantly and painlessly killed, or has witnessed or experienced such things happening to a loved one—or even a stranger—has, or would have, a claim to have experienced hell. That being said, the numbers matter. Gaza has, for instance, the highest number of child amputees in modern history. That is just one statistic among many indicating that the Palestinians’ suffering is abject. None of this is to mention all of the times Israel “mowed the lawn”. Do most Israelis acknowledge this reality? If they do, it would be consistent with being overly cruel—that is, if they believe that the actions taken during the war have largely been justified.

I’m not sure what a “theocratic attack” is. If you mean religiously motivated, then yes, I’m sure some Hamas fighters genuinely wanted to kill Jews because they were antisemites on October 7th. I seem to remember some instances in which that was clearly the case. I don’t think that it necessarily makes that military action religiously motivated as a whole, though. In fact, it is clear that it wasn’t imo. If you could list some of these attacks that would be great.

Okay, I’m not totally sure how to address these claims. First off, Hamas has operated in densely packed urban areas, but just because some hospital was connected to a tunnel system or something, that doesn’t mean they are using people as shields. It just means that they are doing what is effective given Israel’s clear technological edge. Blowing up said hospital because Hamas might be storing a few rifles beneath it is clearly a war crime. And no, Hamas doesn’t starve their own people, they do not systematically rape IDF soldiers, and Israel often times does not issue warnings about military operations in enough time or in clear enough terms, etc. I mean we have literal footage of the IDF double tapping (or maybe it was triple tapping) a hospital in Gaza.

And are tens of thousands of dead Gazans “next to no” dead civilians? You are confirming my point. The Palestinians are casually dehumanized and assumed to be worth less than other people.

They are being cleansed and exterminated if not targeted for genocide.

Israel is basically an ethnostate in which most of the population does not accept that Palestinian children are innocent and has largely approved of measures that have produced a surfeit of child amputees. Can that be justified?

According to who? There is no clear evidence of that. And if you believed that were the case, and thought that Hamas could actually commit, or get close to committing, a genocide, then why wouldn’t you fully support Israel’s use of force in light of your almost complete lack of sympathy?

What would you actually have us do? Just let Israel crush the Palestinians into the ground largely because some men are trying to set things right as they see them? Yes, you and I disagree with the precepts of their flawed ideology, but they are doing what any of us would do if we had that same temerity. We really aren’t that different from them. And in the lack of any sort of universal, empathetic response to rein in one’s views or instincts on such matters, we’d all be tribes of ignoramuses wiping each other out over holy books, virulent political ideologies, etc. Does that sound desirable?

I don’t know what country you’re from, but I think such reflection is valuable in itself. It’s even more valuable to me when it comes from within.

I’d like to draw attention to the following detail. The very idea of ​​the immorality of any act (in this case, war) or its re-evaluation from a moral perspective often stems from the fact that the act itself (war) was initially painted with “moral colors” by politicians.

We know why politicians act this way: to justify themselves, to attract the largest possible number of sympathizers, and ultimately, to create a positive image of themselves and emerge from the war as “saints.”

I’d like to digress a bit from the initial assumptions of your post and shift the focus somewhat. In fact, when someone talks about morality in terms of evaluating another’s behavior, it’s manipulation from the start. In modern realpolitik (and perhaps throughout human history), morality is a tool for justifying the rights of the strong, a tool of manipulation, when used more than just a guide to one’s own behavior.

But what’s happening below, at the level of the individual, the common man? Seeing all this (and thanks to the internet, it’s easy), the individual loses morality as a guide for their own behavior. Today, only the lazy don’t notice how any state uses morality at its own discretion.

Morality is losing its status as a guide. This is what truly saddens me. Mere, mechanistic interests are taking center stage. I dare say that, historically, humanity has constantly played a game of cat and mouse with morality: first proclaiming it, then killing it, and then, discovering that in this state it’s no longer any different from an animal, creating it again.

And you know what else? In this situation where we find ourselves today—debunking the “morality” of government behavior—is also part of the process of moral decline! Unfortunately, criticism of double standards, criticism of metanarratives, will not lead to a politician who has lost morality suddenly stopping and repenting. Unfortunately, he’ll continue to use this tool, we’ll highlight it more and more, and the average person will become increasingly distrustful…

Sorry, I’ve strayed from the original topic. But I thought it was important to talk about it.

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Thanks for the high effort post.

I’m not sure if there is an implicit judgement being made here. I think I agree with your assertions, but in the case that a genocide or ethnic cleansing is occurring there is a precedent we appeal to because the moral, and legally defensible, action is codified in a set of universal rules. I suppose you could assert that moral disasters created by politicians informed the creation of those rules, though. I guess the point I’m making is that we can evaluate this particular war according to a moral perspective regardless of whether or not the discourse deteriorates into a battle fought to make one side or another look like “saints” (or just not awful war criminals). Things can always get muddy, though.

I would say that it is only manipulation if the means by which one attempts to impose a morality on others are dishonest, unscrupulous, etc. But I see where you are coming from.

Your concern for the deterioration of the common person’s trust in moral reasoning is commendable, but I don’t think most people look to the actions of nations or states for confirmation of what is right and wrong or how to think about right and wrong. Or at least I hope not. Yes, the indiscriminate use of power and moral affectation on the part of powerful countries likely causes some level of derangement for the individual, but I doubt many would abandon their morality because they see countries like Israel getting away with atrocities while outputting maximal propaganda.

Yes, politicians are unreachable, but politicians are not really the people I would try to reach in the first place. For instance, the reason I bring up Israel’s supposed guiding logic in the OP (would be to) partially to dislodge people who believe that the Palestinians don’t have a right to resist because of Israels’ propaganda. If, in this case, we can highlight the necessary consequences of the logic of a group of powerful, evil people, we can also create an opportunity for people to act on their own moral convictions independent of any state’s metanarrative. If anything, that would be an affirmation of peoples’ trust in their own sense of right and wrong.

While I think your overall chain of reasoning is cogent, I disagree with a few key assumptions—one being that ethical people are ever inclined to look to unscrupulous politicians for a template for what morality can be. If a person does do that, they are already probably just interested in mechanistic (not totally sure if that is the right word) concerns anyways.

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I won’t argue with your assertions; on the contrary, I consider them entirely consistent within the notions of what is right that you’ve expressed. Moreover, the very attempt to “correct a mistake,” I believe, is noble (especially if fixing the system is still possible). Moreover, if the approach to regulation you propose wins, and justice prevails, I will be the happiest man on earth.

However, my personal expectations of justice prevailing in the world have not borne fruit. And, most likely, in my previous reply, I described my bitter experience of the destruction of my idealistic views and my transformation into a “realist” with a “flair of melancholy.”

Perhaps you might be interested in this note on international law that I wrote a little earlier: War is dead; we killed it

However, I can’t help but ask you: what do you think is preferable—the freedom of a citizen to speak or the state’s duty to listen?

I would be happy too.

Interesting question.

I would say that if the citizen has no inalienable freedom to speak, the state will tend towards functionally becoming more and more selective in which inputs it takes as a result of inertia and power consolidation leading to the restricting of rights (e.g. the primacy of corporate interests over the citizen’s). Furthermore, if the state has no duty to listen, it very well might not matter how much citizens exert their freedom to speak even given that as an inalienable right; if their advocacy contravenes the interests of the state, it can always be ignored. So, if the freedom to speak does not exist, or exists without the state’s duty to listen, progress towards what the citizens might want becomes difficult—in the first case due to the fact that rights can be revoked, and in the second that there is no guaranteed way of making our politicians listen. Thus, I would say that both the citizen’s freedom to speak and the state’s duty to listen are necessary to some degree.

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@Toothy_Maw I don’t even understand why you’re limiting yourself to Gaza. We can talk about the double standards of accepting and supporting an Apartheid State or the blind eye with respect to the West Bank… where there is no Hamas in power; just illegal murders, land grabs, colonisation and displacement of Palestinians.

Quite frankly, anyone still on the bandwagon defending Israel is either uninformed or someone not worth talking to.

You have put together a strong case here, which I agree with entirely. I have avoided threads about this issue because due to the sensitivity around the issue and definition of anti-semitism. It is easy to stray across the line into anti-semitism. Also in seeking to understand the root causes of these issues, it seems an unavoidable line to cross. We have to tip toe around the issue, for fear of being racist.

Moreover I am beginning to think that we are falling into a catch22 here of being forced to remain silent (not by the moderators, I might add), because to speak is itself an act of anti-semitism. That Israel has caused this impasse of criticism and now exploits it at every opportunity. Not only has the phrase anti-semitism crossed the line in the other direction (accusing any criticism of Isreal of racism), but ideologies in which Isreal is given a free pass on criticism are being developed, disseminated, even pushed.

There seems to me to be a narrative of genocide emerging and that it raises it’s head whenever a genocide is taking place. Such that genocide is justified and dissent is neutralised. This has spread into the discourse in the West because of the fact that many Israeli’s have come from these Western countries. Isreal is unique in that it is a Western project, a worthy cause worked out as a solution to a historic wrong perpetrated by a previous genocide carried out by a member of the West.

So we in the West are somehow muted, in our criticism of the project.

And yet, you(perhaps not you Benkeii) can make demonstrable false claims like there is genocide, when literally not even a single aspect of its definition is met / it Hamas does meet them. And then insult someone over it.

this is exactly the type of thing Punssh just accused the “other side” of.

Clearly, your take is amiss somewhere. Accusations of racism against Arabs is almost certainly a larger driver of discourse in West, which is quite bizarre.

In simple terms there are two aspects that constitute an act of genocide: the intent to commit genocide - which Israeli officials speak of publicly, including Netanyahu himself - and the actual actions, of which there have been countless examples.

Israel obviously ticks both of these boxes, which is why it has been repeatedly warned by the UN, and there exists a lifetime’s worth of reports, UN resolutions, etc. detailing Israel’s crimes that it has consistently committed for the better part of a century.

But not only do Israel’s actions legally constitute genocide as per the Geneva convention, it also commits it in almost every way possible, and has done for the better part of a century.

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

  1. Killing members of the group; :white_check_mark:
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; :white_check_mark:
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; :white_check_mark:
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; :white_check_mark:
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. :white_check_mark:

And, I hasten to add, all of that with the full complicity of the United States.

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It’s only through years of political influence from certain lobbies that the definition of anti-semitism became something that equates Israel with Jews, which equivocation Israeli politicians pursue all the time, in an attempt to silence opposition to their insane right-wing zionist policies in pursuit of a greater Israel.

Critizing Israel (and Likud and their like) for its and their documented war crimes has nothing to do with Jews. Anyone trying to make it about Jews is being disingenuous and quite obviously has an agenda.

So I disagree we should tiptoe around the issue. Let them call you a racist. Let them call you an anti-semite. Their moral vacuousness is demonstrated by that very complaint, where what you say is somehow worse than actual war crimes.

Don’t stay mute but don’t waste your own time either: you can show a horse water but you cannot force it to drink.

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so, thanks for the info (no sarcasm). I was, however, aware of this. I do not share your view.

There has been no declaration of a genocide save for a pay/to/play group of activists, and fact-finders at the UN note that there is no credible evidence of a genocide. We could, but I choose not to, get into discussions of motivations, falsifications, over abs under estimations, unreliable sources and misrepresentations as long as is the day.

Besides this, it just is the case that I have not seen evidence of either of those from Israel. I also think, just a basic sense check tells you if Israel wanted that? They’d have it.

at any ray I do not expect anything to change in this thread but suffice to say I reject your assertions those boxes are ticked. I’ve not seen the evidence you’re claiming is blatant. I have, however, seen it from within Palestine. I, for one, am now ok to leave this. I’ve had the conversation start this way far too many times, I apologise for that.

I’m not sure if this is newer or older, but a quick search shows this from September:

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says

A United Nations commission of inquiry says Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

A new report says there are reasonable grounds to conclude that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out since the start of the war with Hamas in 2023: killing members of a group, causing them serious bodily and mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to destroy the group, and preventing births.

It cites statements by Israeli leaders, and the pattern of conduct by Israeli forces, as evidence of genocidal intent.

It also says:

The commission has previously concluded that Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes and other grave violations of international law on 7 October 2023

So none of us should pretend that there’s just one bad side.

My concern is with the innocent civilians stuck in the middle. This isn’t just a war between Hamas and the Israeli government.

As I’m sure you can infer I have other comments around both the report, it’s origins and its actual meaning (as do plenty of others , it seems), but suffice to say, because this is going nowhere: yes, that’s a totally fair position to hold and one I hold myself.
I’m not exactly a fan of Israel and abhor plenty of things it’s doing and has done; although I do think it’s getting better at for instance prosecuting settlers now people are watching closer. The predictable assumptions about my positions were.. well, predictable.

Figures like Ayelet Shaked are perhaps not as bad as Islamists, but getting there.

As far as I understand, Israel cannot be fully described as a secular country. Formally, it may be, but many of the principles of its existence are taken entirely from religion. In a certain sense, this could rather be described as a struggle between two theocratic regimes.

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Placing the UN IICI’s recent finding of Israeli genocide into the larger framework of UN-Israel relations can provide an important context. According to compilations of UN’s voting records, from 2015 to 2024 the General Assembly adopted 173 resolutions focused on Israel and 80 focused on all other countries combined. In 2024, there were 17 on Israel vs. 7 on the rest of the world, in 2025, 15 vs. 11. Regarding the UN’s Human Rights Council, from 2006 to 2024, Israel received about 110 resolutions compared to 45 on Syria, 15 on Iran, and 10 on Russia. https://unwatch.org/database/resolution-database/

The reason for this selectivity could be an anti-Israel bias or the distinct and lasting characteristics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Objectively, there are many more devastating global conflicts, such as the Sudanese civil war or the war in Ukraine. So, besides the humanitarian severity, one should consider different reasons for the fixation on the conflict. It could be the historical singularity or the symbolic status of Israel within our political imagination. Anyway, institutions and media, which repeatedly re-emphasize events, are primarily responsible for sustaining global public attention. Thus, the self-reinforcing dynamics that incorporate media coverage, academic discourse, advocacy organizations, and international monitoring mechanisms keep the continuous visibility of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Therefore, one could assume that what appears as bias may emerge as a secondary effect of this infrastructure. An alternative hypothesis might stem from Zizek’s analyses of antisemitism in ‘The Sublime Object of Ideology’.

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I don’t deny that, overall. Definitely in the past it’s been straight-forward theocratic. I just seriously doubt the religious commitment on the Israeli side vis a vis is military efforts. If it wanted Palestine literally gone, there is no question it would take a matter of hours.

I guess my position there (and by way of explaining why I bother with these other claims) is that the moral difference between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah, IRGC etc.. is an absolute canyon.
@Number2018

Placing the UN IICI’s recent finding of Israeli genocide into the larger framework of UN-Israel relations can provide an important context.

Excellent post. Quote was just so I c/p into my prior reply.