I don’t know… I mean, I think it is debatable. Let’s say that one accepts the view that there is no afterlife and becomes permanently paralyzed but fully aware. Let’s say that this fate happens to someone who grew distant from his or her family, friends and so on (so the person can’t have a hope on a future better state). Would such a life be better than ‘non-existence’? I’m not so sure.
In other words, I can see how a state of torment in which there is no hope for release can be a state worse than non-existence.
I would suggest that framing the question in terms of obligation is essentially meaningless in an ethical sense. If the kids feel no bond with their parents, or harbor strong resentments, then they will not be supportive of their parents, and any abstract concept of obligation will make no difference. But if the kids and parent share a positive bond, then the kids will be supportive to the extent they feel appropriate. I do think there is a misleading theory out there that parents should be perfect parents, and anything less than that makes them responsible for all their offspring’s issues – sometime adolescent and adult children are encouraged to place all the blame for their discontent upon their parents. I think that’s a mistake that oversimplifies the human condition; when adult children are encouraged to break off communication with their parents it simply locks both sides into isolation, with no opportunity for growth and understanding – presuming, of course, that the parents are not demonsrably “toxic.”
I agree with this statement. Parents have the choice to bear a child or not and they are aware that said child has free will to love them back or not and they take this chance by having a child. They can’t expect someone to “owe” them just because they gave them life. If you were a good parent and the child was raised in a good environment the child should feel an obligation to take care of their parents in return but again in the end its their choice. That choice being a good one or not is not in the hands of the parent. If they were raised in a bad environment obviously they don’t owe their parents anything but if they wish to,they can still take care of them out of the goodness of their heart. In total the child has no obligation towards their parents but depending on their parents behaviour and social norms this can change.
There is the problem of not being able to ask if one does not already exist. The ability to consent is a property of the living, so the whole argument is irrelevant. One cannot apply the conditions of life to the unborn.
If they are disappointed with life and scorn their parents for it, it is because they are ungrateful, nothing more.
Could you relate this to what you objected to? I’m not seeing anything in this post which connects to an objection to the inarguable abstract fact that no one asked to be born.
I think, as it seems many do, there are two distinct issues in the OP.
First: No. You don’t owe anything in the world anything, whatsoever, until you start consciously, with understanding of the particular cause and effect relationship you’re enacting, take from the world (or, your parents, your community, your country etc…). Your parents decided to have you (or keep you). It’s entirely on them to do decide what to expect from you, and you are more than welcome to reject their demands (or, expect more).
Secondly: I think anyone going “no contact” with someone for something they did which does not present some immediate threat to them or someone in the mutual orbit is an indication you’re dealing with someone who never grew out of being a child with parents who put up with the “I hate you!!!” tantrums when no ice cream was available. I am being purposefully reductive, because that’s exactly how I think the arguments behind that action run. I do not support Trump, wouldn’t have voted for him and think plenty of his actions/policies have been pernicious, destructive and harmful. Yet, there are people who live in my community (i.e nothing do to with Donald Trump or anything he has done or will do (most likely)) who, because I have made, for instance, said “Hang on, he didn’t say “both sides” about white supremacists” have decided I am now a danger to them and their children.
Go figure. These are children with children (and, as an side, I can see the harm it’s doing to those children). I don’t think parents should be expecting anything from their children, partly because they’re not owed anything, and partially because they’re likely to be disrespected in ways concepts like “loyalty” and “love” can’t accommodate.
Alllllll of that said, as an antinatalist, a parent is a dick for having a kid. They deserve nothing.
No person asked to be born, but as beings, we are more than or other than a person. ‘Person’ comes from the Greek word for the masks worn by actors in a drama (dramatis personae). In a broader sense, individuals are the consequence of drives that are deeper than what a person might want or not want. I didn’t comment on the family estrangement issue except in relation to the current political situation in a very divided America.
Yes, to be clear all of the following stuff was just aimed at OP, not you.
I can’t say i grasp what you’re talking about here, unfortunately. If you did not ask to be born, you are not obligated to do anything about being born. That includes dealing with your parents.
The converse though, carries responsibility because you have done something ethically indefensible, and are now required to assuage that child’s pain. The comments you’re making (variously - hard to see the exact line of thought) about personhood, individuality and being don’t seem to touch on the specific issue there? As i said, I can’t see hte connection between your objection and your comments. Apologies if I’m missing something major.
If i gave you a gift you hated would you appreciate it? Even if the gift was assigned to you before you were born,wouldnt you hate it once you’re old enough to receive it.
Parent owe everything to their children and it isnt vice versa. If you caused someone’s birth regardless of his/her consent and made her or him to live this life, then you must owe everything.