The Law of Personal Interests in Politics

What does the term “politics” encompass? It refers, first and foremost, to government, political parties, the state structure, the government, elections, civic and political activities, and so on. In a positive sense, people need government to organize and structure society in the best possible way. To this end, a state and political system is created that, to one degree or another, seeks to fulfill these tasks. The latest achievements in this regard are the republican form of government and democratic systems. Various political parties are formed, each of which envisions such a system in its own way. This vision is reflected in the parties’ platforms. Individuals join a party because they share its stated goals and the means to achieve them. Note that we are talking about a specific person who has a personal interest in a social system in which they, too, will live better. Often, this “better” is associated with an improvement in one’s material circumstances. But to a large extent, it is not necessarily a material interest. It is, for example, an interest in freedom of speech, elections, assembly, information, culture, art, and so on. But even though it is not material, it is still a personal interest.

As mentioned above, this is a positive, socially beneficial version of people’s pursuit of power.

But there is also a negative version—promoting a system of government in which I personally could enrich myself constantly and on a large scale. I could enrich myself far more than under the rule of those political rivals who are currently in power. This is corruption; this is embezzlement; this is the kind of power and position that would provide me with significantly greater opportunities for personal enrichment.

Personal interest is present in both the first (positive) and the second (negative) scenarios. In the second, it is achieved through criminal means; in the first, through socially beneficial means.

In addition to political parties, there are various non-political civic organizations that publicly state similar goals of improving people’s lives in both broad and narrow spheres. But this, just as with political parties, is an association of people with the same or similar views, reflecting their personal interest in a particular structure of certain spheres of society that will personally benefit them.

There are labor unions. Any labor union is an association of people in the same or similar professions dedicated to expressing and protecting the interests of its members—specifically, people in those professions. Protection, first and foremost, against the employer, as well as against other potential negative influences. What do they protect? You might say, “their professional interests.” Yes, but these professional interests are the essence of their personal interests: in wages, in working hours, in working conditions, in occupational safety, in certain narrowly professional issues, etc.

When I think of Marxism-Leninism, a question arises: why did such great thinkers as Marx, Engels, and Lenin, in substantiating their class-based theory of social structure, did not dig deeper and did not discover (and if they did, then why did they not say so “loudly” enough) that at the heart of their class laws lies a single, deeper law—the law of personal interest. And if they had known and understood this, then both they themselves and their followers—socialists of all stripes, and especially communists—would have known for certain, as they built their models of the state, that no matter how hard they tried, building a society in which every member cared more about the public interest than their own personal interests would be close to a utopia. (Although the utopian socialism of European thinkers was, in fact, one of the components of Marxism.) So what kind of great thinkers are these, anyway?!

What is one of the fundamental differences between socialism and capitalism? It is public versus private (individual) ownership of the means of production.

And I dare to assert, without fear of repeating myself, that the communist-socialist model of state-building failed, collapsed, and effectively disappeared precisely because it stubbornly refused to acknowledge the law of personal interest and tried in every way to place the public interests of the people above personal ones. The capitalist system proved to be stronger and more viable precisely because it does not fight against an objective law—which, as is well known, cannot be overcome by definition—but is based entirely on the law of personal interest and personal gain! There, private and personal interests have been prioritized over social interests for centuries and, for the most part, continue to be prioritized today.

Although it must be said that in developed capitalist countries, significant progress has been made over the years in ensuring both rights and freedoms, as well as a fairly high standard of living for ordinary people. But it must also be said that this was achieved through the persistent struggle of people for their personal interests, which is what prompted parties and governments to act in this direction.

That said, as far as I know, as soon as governments start leaning too far “to the left,” the economy begins to suffer.

Thus: the law of self-interest in politics operates quite obviously and is visible to the naked eye. Always keep this law in mind, and most political events, phenomena, trends, and conflicts will become clearer to you. In most situations, it is a struggle between united (and not only) personal interests and personal gain.

Lately, in Ukraine and beyond, the phrase “conflict of interest” has been mentioned more and more often in the worlds of politics and business. I would say: “It’s mentioned somewhat timidly.” There isn’t enough courage to call these conflicts by their true nature. Namely: “conflict of PERSONAL INTERESTS”—either between the interests of two individuals or between personal and public interests. Embrace the Law of Personal Gain and stop confusing people with empty rhetoric. Call things by their proper names, and then we’ll reach the truth more quickly and find ways to combat these criminal PERSONAL INTERESTS, rather than searching for them at random for years, skirting around the issue, too shy to utter these words. Armed with knowledge of the Law—as an objective, scientific principle—we could have long ago used this knowledge, already firmly established in the public consciousness as scientifically proven, to fight against these phenomena, rather than wandering in the darkness of guesswork and assumptions about the nature of unlawful phenomena, particularly corruption.

Addendum.

I mistakenly omitted the formula (wording) of the law of personal interest here.

The formula reads as follows:

“Most people, in most situations, are guided of personal nterest and personal gain.”

An explanation of the reason for this error, as well as information on where to find the rationale for this law and related topics on this forum, can be found—if you’d like—in my response to a question from user Jay, who, I’d like to thank him, pointed out my mistake.

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IMHO you would be doing a great disservice to yourself if you apply a back-of-the-envelope-calculations method to the issue. My hunch is that you’ve taken on a very big problem facing human civilization but now are in the grips of the idee fixe of personal interest.

However, I’m speaking from the position of someone who himself has done nothing more than skim the surface. You probably have dived to greater depths and know what you’re talking about. To your credit you’ve replicated the result of wisemen.

Could you state the law of self-interest?

Dear JAY.

I reread this thread of mine and was very surprised to find that the formulation of the Law of Personal Interest is indeed missing here. This happened for the following reason: the example of the Law of Personal Interest at work in politics is just one section of my much more extensive thread on this very law—where it comes from, its formulation, and its manifestations (effects) in various spheres of personal and social life.

Prior to this, I had already published a series of threads related to the Law of Personal Interest in several categories of our Philosophy Forum, where I repeatedly cited both the formula of the law itself and its justification. Perhaps that is precisely why I mistakenly assumed that I had already bored everyone interested in my threads with these reminders.

That is probably why I failed to notice that, in this very topic of mine in the Political Philosophy category, I had not actually provided the formula of the law itself. This is undoubtedly an unacceptable mistake on my part, for which I, of course, apologize. Therefore, I:

1. Here is the formulation of the Law of Personal Interest

“Most people, in most situations, are guided of personal interest and personal gain.”

2. If you wish, you and other participants in the discussion can familiarize yourselves with the rationale behind this law and topics regarding its application in various spheres of personal and social life in the Social Philosophy and Ethics categories on this forum.

3. In the Political Philosophy category, this formula has also been cited repeatedly in discussions about communism, socialism, and capitalism in the thread “Are most/all of the common negative statements criticizing communism merely capitalist propaganda?” (though I don’t think I referred to this formula as a “law” there)

By the way, this discussion has been going on there for quite some time and is quite serious. And I posted some fairly lengthy comments there that constantly touched on this very law of Personal interest—specifically in politics and economics (if you’re interested, you can find this discussion).

4. Right here in the Political Philosophy category, in the thread mentioned above, I published a short post in which I informed the participants in the discussion that the topic of personal interest would be continued in the Social Philosophy and Ethics categories. (You’ll easily recognize this post by the colored graphic posted there.)

5. I will correct my mistake, edit this thread of mine, and provide the wording of this law here.

Where do you get this stuff? Didn’t the Russian economy boom after the Revolution? Didn’t they win the “space race” (for a while) with the U.S.? Didn’t they defeat Nazi Germany, largely because they produced more tanks and airplanes during WW2? Do you really think Karl Marx was stupid, or ignorant of basic economic theory?

The Law of Self Interest is either incorrect or meaningless. Of course people voluntarily do whatever they want to do. If doing what you want to do is “self-interest”, then the law becomes circular and meaningless. “Most people” (for example) have children, which involves sacrificing scarce resources to help others. Is this “personal interest”? If all examples of sacrificing for others can be explained by “personal interest”, the law becomes meaningless. It simply restates, “People voluntarily do what they want to do.” Everyone knows that. So what? Perhaps they want to pay taxes, donate to charity, and support their children, parents, and friends.

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So this isn’t a law in the usual sense. More a generalization about what people do?

And see @Ecurb , above. If “personal interest” is stretched to cover everything that anyone might have an interest in doing, it becomes hard to separate it from any other kind of interest, including what I guess you’re thinking of as an altruistic public interest.

My friend Scorpio!

“In my humble opinion, you would be doing yourself a huge disservice if you applied the method of rough estimates to this issue.”

1. You have essentially refused to explain how your experiment could actually be conducted so that its results could then be calculated. I asked you a question: Do you agree or disagree with my law of self-interest? After your answer, I promised to offer you a simple, practical method to test its validity.

You didn’t answer.

You don’t even know yet what calculation method I intend to use to prove my theory of self-interest, yet you’ve already dismissed it as false.

I think this way of conducting a discussion is unproductive.

I’m willing to continue the discussion if you don’t avoid answering my questions.

2. “However, I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who has only scratched the surface. You’ve probably delved deeper and know what you’re talking about.”

Yes, I have indeed delved deeper. If you’d like to learn more about my topic of personal interest, you’d have to review my posts on this subject in the Ethics and Social Philosophy categories.

3. I really do, just like you, feel that I’ve taken on a ‘big problem,’ and I sincerely admitted this in my thread ‘An Exploration of the Role of Personal Interest in Human Life’ in the Social Philosophy category, where I explained the essence of this law, where it comes from, and how it works in people’s everyday (and not only) lives.

4. “…but now you are caught in the grip of the idée fixe of personal interest.”

I presented my evidence regarding the idea of personal interest in the aforementioned topic. You called it an “idée fixe” without providing any evidence.

Try to present your objections to my evidence in the specified thread and in others already published on this forum, as well as in those that will appear here in the future.

5. “I have to give you credit—you’ve replicated the sages’ findings.”

Is that sarcasm?

6. I did indeed become familiar with the views of the sages (Epicurus, T. Hobbes, Spinoza, Schopenhauer, Freud) regarding human egoism, but only many years after I had formulated my own law of personal interest.

@Ekurb, Jay

Dear Ekurb and Jay!

Answers to your questions and objections—as well as similar ones from a number of other users—have already been posted in my previous threads on the law of personal interest. If you’d like, you can review them there so I don’t have to repeat them here. After that, some of your questions may fall off.

These are the threads:

“Social Philosophy” category:

An exploration of the role of personal interest in human life.

On injustice: its origins, development, and contemporary manifestations

The philosophical law of egoism in economics

Is corruption inevitable from a philosophical point of view?

“Ethics” category:

On human egoism and the inevitability of self-interest

Is every personal interest an act of selfishness?

The law of personal gain—the root cause of most evil on earth

“Political Philosophy” category—in the comments, specifically the topic “The Law of personal Interest in Politics”

There’s no disagreement between us on the law of personal interest. Personal interest is a known variable and carries significant weightage.

All my comments to your threads were sincere and well-intentioned. I even recommended an experiment to perform to assess the impact of personal interest. I laid out the mathematics of such an exercise, the pitfalls and how one might work towards addressing them. Designing the experiment is something I hope you’ll do. If you don’t feel up to it, if it’s too much trouble, you can go to a website with global statistics on human well-being, crime rates, etc. and look for correlations and associations.

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I’m sure this is true, but generally on TPF, we try to respond directly if the point being raised is a relatively straightforward one, as I believe it is here.

My own interest in the question is lively enough that I’m willing to participate in a thread about it, but not enough to do homework by reading several other threads and trying to find the answers you’re referring to.

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My friend Scorpio!

“All my comments on your posts were sincere and well-intentioned.”

Thank you, and I apologize if I didn’t properly understand your stance on my posts.

Thank you for expressing your view on the thesis of the Law of Personal Interest.

“There are no disagreements between us regarding the thesis of the Law of Personal Interest.”

I also thank you for the new version of the experiment that you proposed to me. It is simpler than the previous one, but I think it will turn out to be more complex than mine and, as you warned, more demanding both in terms of how the questions are phrased and the accuracy of the answers to them

And now, as I promised, I will explain my version of the experiment to you.

The experiment involves a simplified investigation of the question: Do most people, in most situations, act in their own self-interest, or—when their interests conflict with those of others—do they always, or as a rule, yield their own interests? Or, even without such a conflict, do they devote their time, resources, and energy to charity?

However, to avoid any ambiguity, we must first agree on the definitions of selfishness and altruism.

In my research, I use the definitions discussed in the topic “On Human Selfishness and the Nature of Personal Interest” in the “Ethics” category. Here they are:

- A person always seeks to satisfy their own personal interests in any situation, regardless of the interests of other people or society.

I call this type of behavior “aggressive selfishness.”

- A person seeks first and foremost to satisfy their personal interests but is willing to take the interests of others into account when those interests intersect with their own—within the limits of what they themselves consider reasonable. Such a person seeks compromises and may sometimes even sacrifice their personal interests for humanitarian reasons or to avoid conflict.

I call this type of behavior “reasonable egoism.”

The third situation

  • A person looks out for their natural and other personal interests, just like everyone else, as long as these interests do not conflict with the interests of others or society. However, if such a conflict arises, this person always—or in most cases—sacrifices their own interests for the sake of others or for the common good.

This quality is usually considered altruism.

A person who wants to conduct my experiment should assess how many of their relatives, friends, and acquaintances they consider to be aggressive egoists, and how many are altruists. All the rest will belong to the group of rational egoists. Even such a simplified version of the study, I think, will reveal the ratio of these groups.

However, to increase accuracy, it is advisable to conduct the experiment as follows:

The person recalls all members of their family—including children, friends, acquaintances, coworkers, teammates in sports or other groups, and so on—whom they know more or less well through personal interaction. One by one, they visualize each person and decide whether that person can be considered an aggressive (overt) egoist or an altruist. They place a mark in the “respondents” column, and if they decide that the person can be confidently classified into one of the two categories mentioned above, they check the corresponding box. They repeat this process for everyone. Next, he calculates separately the percentage of each of these categories relative to the total and, as a result, obtains, on the one hand, the number of overt egoists and, on the other, the number of pure altruists.

The rest automatically fall into the category of rational egoists (since there is no fourth category). In addition to these, however, there are transitional zones (see the graph there). Now, on one hand, the experimenter sums the number of aggressive and rational egoists, and on the other, the number of altruists, and calculates their percentage relative to all participants. Next, it compares these two figures and determines the result: where there are more and where there are fewer.

This experiment, of course, does not claim to be a full-fledged statistical study due to limited samples and the approximate nature of the estimates.

Incidentally, any participant interested in this topic can apply this experiment to their own life experience. This includes those who do not acknowledge the validity of the law of self-interest.

Of course, the accuracy could be improved by introducing a scoring system to assess the degree of selfishness, altruism, and even “rational selfishness.” That would introduce so-called “gray areas,” but that complicates the process. However, I consider the proposed approach quite effective, since clearly expressed extreme forms of selfishness and altruism are fairly easy to recognize.

I became convinced of this while conducting my own experiment, the results of which, to be honest, even surprised me.

What would be useful, however, is to look at children separately. Because I think they’ll account for the highest percentage of egoists.

I tried conducting this experiment on myself right while writing this post.

Among my family of nine, I counted three obvious egoists and one altruist. All three egoists are grandchildren under 13 years old, and the altruist is my wife. The remaining 5 are “smart” egoists. The result: 3 + 5 egoists—more than 1 altruist.

33.3% + 55.5% = 88.8% versus 11.1%

Among my six long-time close friends: 1 is an obvious egoist, and 1 is an altruist.

Among 11 coworkers: 2 are aggressive egoists, and 2 are more likely altruists. Let’s summarize and calculate the percentages:

In total, among these people, there are (3) aggressive egoists (17.6%); altruists—(3) (17.6%). The remaining 64.7% are rational egoists. Aggressive + rational egoists: 17.6% + 64.7% = 82.4%—more than the 17.6% of altruists.

Of course, the sample size is extremely small, and the boundaries between the different categories appear sharp and would look vertical on a graph. In real life, these boundaries are much more blurred.

I’ve even had to classify people as egoists or altruists with some stretching of the truth. If these were truly AGGRESSIVE egoists and PURE altruists, there would be even fewer of them. However, even this result corresponds quite well to my graph presented in the aforementioned thread on “Ethics.” And overall, it confirms the formula of the law of self-interest.

NOTE: To be honest, I didn’t manipulate the numbers, and this was the first time I’d actually conducted such an experiment in practice,

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:open_mouth:

Hats off to you.

Since the question is about what proportion of people who act in self interest we can do with a survey, which you have done, using a questionnaire. I’ve already informed you of where there’s risk of bias.

Another point to note is that you have more than 2 categories and so your question is ill-formed.

You’ve taken a convenience sample which is acceptable as long as you declare it at the start.

From your survey it seems most people are rational egoists. I hope that’s good news for us/you.

A graph? A more suitable statistical visual aid would be a pie diagram.

As I mentioned regarding your earlier post, I personally really appreciate your drive to explore this and other topics related to your personal interests.

However, here is something I’ve noticed—something that might be useful to you (or perhaps not). Everything I write below relates to epistemology and meta-epistemology.

I am currently working on a concept—it’s still a bit rough, but I’ll try to outline it here. It concerns the movement of thought. In this instance, I observe you moving from Praxis to Techne—that is, from experience to technology. You are moving from a real-life problem to the development of a solution that overcomes it.

For example: suppose you need a place to live. You decide to build a house. You take whatever is at hand and assemble it—however you can—into a shelter where you can sleep warmly.

Is this a good solution? Undoubtedly! But it suits only you, your specific location, and your culture. Let’s call it pragmatism in its extreme form.

Now, consider a different approach. You need to develop a method for building houses where everyone can live safely. That is a fundamentally different task. In this case, you would have to study structural mechanics, foundation types, and building materials, and design something that can be replicated to suit many people. Here, the direction of thought is different: from Episteme through Phronesis to Techne.

Yet, in your case, it seems to me that you are trying to solve the problem of housing for everyone by practically constructing a specific house for yourself. That isn’t bad—I am certainly not criticizing it. But the resulting structure won’t suit everyone, and the accumulated contradictions (an “ontological debt”) will eventually have to be paid for by ordinary people.

I don’t know if this comment has been helpful, but this is precisely what I was trying to convey to you earlier (in the previous thread).

What about building a society where personal interests go hand in hand with the public interest?

Wouldn’t that be what they would reply? That they don’t expect everyone to sacrifice their personal interest for the public interest, but that furthering the public interest would also further their personal interest.

Do you have examples?