I started to wonder what metaphysical implications on this may be.
Given the fact that a solar eclipse is an astronomical event, I believe it should be approached by the framework of Realism, because of the following arguments:
Solar eclipses do not need a conscious observer to exist. They remain real even in the complete absence of any observer.
Solar eclipses are objectively real. It is a phenomenon which implications can be studied by astronomy, but it doesn’t depend on beliefs or evidence.
Therefore, a solar eclipse exists completely independently of human minds.
However, it is not that easy.
Solar eclipses happen once every X years (or even centuries!).
I read that this solar eclipse will be the only one visible in Iceland in the 21st century, as the next one will be in 2196.
Imagine the many generations of Icelanders who will not “experience” a visible solar eclipse. Nowadays, thanks to the Internet, it is simple to share photos everywhere. But think about those who can’t even see a picture.
From 2026 to 2196, solar eclipses will not be visible to observers in Iceland. Many people would pass away without ever acknowledging that this event occurred.
However, the solar eclipse will for sure occur sooner or later. My opinion is that there are some events that occur and exist without us being fully aware that they happen.
Certainly from the perspective of someone living in the right country on Earth, but from the perspective of someone constantly on the move there might never be an eclipse and from the perspective of someone in space following the moon’s orbit there can be an eclipse every two weeks lasting two weeks.
Now the question is; is there such a thing as a perspective-less eclipse?
Even more so than the words I just quoted, above, this one says it clearly. And yet metaphysically, we cannot really say what would be real or unreal in the absence of observers, because we can’t examine non-observed evidence, can we? Because non-observed evidence cannot be collected in the first place?
I think yes, there is such a thing as a perspective-less eclipse.
Since the eclipse is an event which occurs when the moon gets in the way of the sun’s light, I believe this is a natural phenomenon, and it will happen constantly, without the interference of our perspective on it.
Yes, I agree!
However, the eclipse is a phenomenon that occurs (we can say with 100% chance), and it is real. But the eclipse doesn’t need evidence; it does happen.
This makes me wonder how many things and phenomena occurred in the past, without us being fully aware that they were happening!
The Moon blocks the Sun’s light from some perspective every two weeks and lasts for two weeks. It’s only from our perspective in Europe that this happens less frequently.
As a better way to explain this, imagine that the Earth disappeared and that the Moon orbited the Sun instead. Does the Moon ever block the Sun’s light, and if so how often does this happen?
There will always be some perspective such that the Moon is blocking the Sun’s light.
At any point in time you can draw a straight line from the Sun to the Moon. Continue that line a further 238,855 miles and have someone float there in space looking in the direction of the Sun. They will see a total eclipse.
But from the perspective of someone floating in space at the same distance but at a different elevation there is never an eclipse because the Moon will never block their view of the Sun.
As another example, let’s say that the Sun and the Moon are the only bodies in the universe, with the Moon orbiting the Sun. We have three options:
The Sun and the Moon are always aligned
The Sun and the Moon are sometimes aligned
The Sun and the Moon are never aligned
(1) and (2) make no sense.
That two bodies are aligned depends on a third reference frame.
Yes, for exactly the reasons I explained above. There must be a third reference frame for the Moon to be blocking view of the Sun.
Is there ever an eclipse where Mars is blocking view of the Sun? Certainly not for us on Earth, but there would be for some alien spacecraft floating in the appropriate place in space and looking towards the Sun.
I’d say no, unless we insist that an “eclipse” has to mean something one sees from a particular perspective. That’s not unreasonable; it would be like saying that someone who’s seen Venus in the morning but has never seen Venus in the evening has never seen the Evening Star: true in a sense, but not the important sense.
What’s important is that the necessary alignment of solar bodies (what we on Earth call an eclipse) happens regardless of who’s around to notice it.
We can certainly say that from this reference point the Sun and the Earth are aligned and that from this reference point they’re not, without actually moving to these reference points ourselves.
So do you just mean to say that spacetime would still exist with planets existing at particular coordinates even if no conscious observers were alive to see it?
Yes, and in the case of the eclipse, we can specify some coordinates from which it could be viewed – the reference points – without requiring that anyone be there to do so.
What does “in the case of the eclipse” mean here, though? There’s always a point we can calculate from which the moon would block the view. It’s just that, most of the time, it’s somewhere we can’t go. This is point-of-view in the technical camera term: a line from here to there, and what you can see. It needs a recepient point. And there’s always going to be recepient point somewhere in the milky way, where the moon would block the view of the earth, were there something that could register it. There’s really no “in case of” here. There’s always an eclipse; it’s just rarely where we are.
Or at least I think that’s what Michael was saying (I could be wrong).
Good question! It illustrates the point. I think an eclipse must be a product of perspective?
