Is Every Personal Interest Egoism?

In discussions about human behavior, I have repeatedly encountered the view that if a person acts in their own interests, this is already egoism.

At first glance, this seems logical. But is every personal interest really something that should automatically be called egoism?

A person wakes up, has breakfast, goes to work, earns money to support themselves and their family, rests after work, reads, exercises, meets friends, and takes an interest in art, science, religion, or philosophy .

All of these activities are carried out in their own personal interests. But if, in doing so, they do not harm others or pursue their interests at the expense of others, is there any reason to call such behavior egoisti c?

It is precisely here, in my opinion, that an important confusion aris es.

Personal interest and egoism are not the same th ing.

For the purposes of this discussion, I propose to understandegoismas behavior in which a person places their own interests above the interests of others and satisfies those interests at the expense of other people or soc iety.

Moreover, this is approximately how egoism is usually defined in encyclopedic so urces:

“Egoism (from the Latinego, meaning ‘I’) is a value orientation in which one’s own interests, needs, and benefit are placed above everything else while disregarding the interests of others. It is a pattern of behavior in which a person acts exclusively for their own benefit, often using other people as a means of achieving their own goals.”

To better understand the relationships between different forms of egoism, altruism, and other types of behavior, I propose considering several behavioral patterns. They are illustrated, approximately and only schematically, in the followi ng graph

In this discussion, I will use the following definitions of behavio ral types.

The first type is aggressive egoism (the red zone).

This is a situation in which a person seeks to satisfy their own interests above all else, regardless of how this affects other people. Whenever their interests conflict with those of others, they try to achieve their goals at the expens e of others.

The second type is rational egoism (the yellow zone).

Such a person also places their own interests first but understands that they live among other people and that life is better when relationships are based on cooperation. They are capable of seeking compromises, reaching agreements, making reasonable concessions, and sometimes helping others, provided that doing so does not require excessive s elf-sacrifice.

The third type is altruism (t he green zone).

Like everyone else, an altruist has natural personal needs and interests and seeks to satisfy them. However, when a conflict arises between their own interests and the interests of other people or society, they usually—or almost always—are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the benefit of others or for the common good.

In addition, such a person may voluntarily engage in charitable activities, sacrificing their own time, effort, money, or other resources.

The transition zones between the colors represent people whose motivations are mixed and whose behavior may vary depending on the circumstances.

The red and yellow zones together const itute the majority.

Of course, the graph does not claim statistical accuracy. Rather, the proportions shown reflect my own view of a general pattern in human motivation, which I f ormulate as follows:

“Most people, in most situations, are guided by their personal interests a nd personal benefit.”

Bypersonal interest, I mean all the needs, desires, goals, dreams, and aspirations that a person considers personally significant a nd for which they act.

Such interests may be material or non-material: physical, emotional, intellectual, creative, aesthetic , spiritual, and so on.

I have called this principle theLaw of Personal Interest (LPI). I have referred to it several times on this forum and promised to provide a more detailed justification in a separate discussion. That discussion has already been published in this category under the title“A Study of the Role of Personal Interest in Human Life.”

Note.The formulation of the LPI also allows for:

  • situations in which people are guided by considerations oth er than personal interest;

  • people who are often, or even predominantly, guid ed by other considerations.

However, in my opinion, both of these represent a minority.

It is also worth mentioning another fa irly common fourth situation.

This is when a person acts in their own interests, but those interests do not conflict with anyone else’s. They work, rest, study, pursue hobbies, communicate, develop themselves, seek comfort, enjoyment, knowledg e, beauty, or meaning in life.

Here, there is indeed a personal interest. But if people’s interests either do not intersect at all, or intersect without coming into conflict, then, in my opinion, it is inappropriate to spea k of either egoism or altruism.

This is because both egoism and altruism concern a person’s attitude toward other peoplewhen th eir interests are in conflict.

That is why I believe that not every form of behavior motivated by personal interest shoul d automatically be called egoism.

I have repeatedly observed philosophical discussions in which such ordinary actions were described as “egoistic” simply because the y were based on personal interest.

They certainly are based on personal interest. However, the wordegoismalmost always carries a negative moral connotation and is associa ted with selfishness or immorality.

But is there really any justification for calling someone an egoist simply because they work, care for their family, study, re lax, or pursue personal develop ment?

In my opinion, there i s not.

Now let us turn to altruism.

Here another, in my view, common confusion often arises.

Many people argue that so-called altruists, when performing charitable or selfless acts, may also be acting in their own interests—for example, to create a favorable impression on others or even in the hope of being rewarded in the afterlife.

On this basis, some conclude thatall al truistic actions are actual ly egoistic.

I take a different view.

I believe t here is a subtle but important distinction.

In such cases, these actions may indeed be classified as egoistic , or at least as motivated by mixed motives.

However, there are also situations in which a person does good simply because they genuinely wish to do go od, without any expectation of personal gain.

Even if helping others brings them inner satisfaction, I do not believe that this alone is sufficient reason to labe l them an egoist.

Of course, one may object:

“How can we know a person’s true motivation? From the outsid e, different mot ives may look exactly the same.”

That is true.

But this is a problem for the o bserver, not for the person performing the action.

Our inability to know someone’s true motives does not mean that those motives do not exist, nor does it prove that genuine selfless altruism is impossible.

In formulating my p rinciple, I donotdeny the existence of altruism.

On the contrary, I believe that genuine altruism does exist.

There are people who are truly willing to sacrifice their own interests for the sake of oth ers, and they certainly deserve respect and gratitude.

However, I d o not believe that such people constitute the majority.

In my opinion, most p eople are neither extreme egoists nor genuine altruists.

Rather, most belong to the category ofrational egoism: as already mentioned, they primarily care about their own interests while also bei ng capable of taking the interests of others into account

I agree. The same type of issue pops up in all kinds of weird places e.g. in theism. I mean is god a loving father or a celestial dictator? When god allegedly acts benevolently, by answering heartfelt prayers for instance, we get these warm fuzzy feelings but when he loses his temper and transforms into a bull in some poor dude’s China shop we have second thoughts. Life’s complexity is such that, forget one man, even an entire stadium of philosophers won’t cut it.

I think that it is umhelpful to start with self interest as a baseline. People don’t have a foundation of self interest we have evolved behaviours that promote kin, in groups and niche as well as self directed goals. I have tried to illustrate this further in a post on proper function

This is not the case even as a generalisation. People have a number of different motivations and observed human behaviour demonstatss them. Watch a parent and a child and tell me that personal benefit is the default.

This is a bit confusing why do people need my gratitude for behaving naturally

No, there is no confusion. Ethical egoism is about self-interest, whether the action is mutual benefit between two parties. I think there’s a lot of bad impressions about ethical egoism, namely, that adherents perform an act to get what they want despite the harm their actions cause to others. This is not the case. This is actually the misunderstanding about ethical egoism.

Self-interest is what we have already possess in us: desires, feelings, motivation, inclination. Several philosophers support this premise. An egoist will perform an act that benefit others if that is the way he gets what he desires. An egoist knows that harming others to get what he wants will lead to a life of danger, insecurity, poor health – conditions that an egoist does not want. So, he avoids an act that ultimately does not serve his self-interest.

If you support ethical egoism, do not waste your time on the naming, rather focus on the status of the theory: is it empirically true in such a way that it is falsifiable by observing people in the real world? Can we test this theory?

The self-interest startup is actually one step level to the origin of said self-interest. Humans have passions (Hume’s catch-all word for desires, motivation, feelings). So, while it is correct here to say that the baseline for this argument shouldn’t be self-interest, it is ultimately the origin of self-interest-- feelings and desires that should be the starting point. I just told @Flying to invest some time analyzing the truth of this theory by empirical means.

Again, I think this is a misunderstanding of ethical egoism. What do you consider a “personal gain”? Pleasure? It does not have to mean wealth or material possession. An ethical egoist can argue that altruism, performing an act to help others, indeed has an origin to feelings. Feelings of pleasure while helping others is a self-interest state of mind. If a person feels discomfort in seeing others suffer, starve, or drown, this counts as self-interested motivation to act to remedy the situation.

This is how the ethical egoism argument makes their case. And you can review the testings done in the field of psychology regarding the brain and the heart of someone who is an altruist.

I find the topics created here in the forum as really engaging, but they need more digging deeper to get to the bottom of the argument.

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Sure, but you haven’t explained why that person feels discomfort. It seems most likely to be because they care about other people’s misfortune ( at least on those occasion)

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There can be fluctuations of ego that are not egoism. So no, not every personal interest is egoism.

Egoism would necessarily commute ego. To be egotistical is another ‘over’ (reasonable amounts), like ‘selfish’.

Ego isn’t recognized in every fluctuation; if it’s acceptable action, reasonable ego, it’s not egoism. Ego has a strange effect, it’s either noticed or let go of.

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Discomfort is a natural response to something. I have spent time explaining the passions (desires, pain, pleasure, discomfort). And you just made a value judgment of “because they care about other people’s misfortune”. Do you know if this is demonstrable? Because I did mention that ethical egoism, while trivially true, is also an empirically valid argument. When you say that discomfort most likely because they care about other people’s misfortune, aren’t you saying that there’s this feeling in them that made them help others?

There’s also the confusion about altruism, which I failed to emphasize. While an ethical egoist, or maybe I should go ahead and call it rational egoist, acts to satisfy self-interest be it feelings or material gain (or the whole welfare of an egoist long term), they also perform acts that we call altruistic: which is miscategorized as selfless. It’s not a selfless act for if it was, then empirically, the field of psychology would not get any activities in the brain and heart when an equipment is used to measure the brain activities and pulses. Selfless here means one is dispassioned or unfeeling, they just perform the act purely for the benefit of another. Which is false!

I’m pretty sure that there are sound reasons to think some people have dispositions to help others and that’s why they experieince pleasure in doing so.

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There are sound reasons to help others, and this idea is not lost in the world of a rational egoist. But, it seems you’re saying that, feelings (of pleasure) comes after a moral act is performed, when the doctrine is, desires/feelings are what make us act morally.

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@Johnnywas

Polit:

“Most people, in most situations, are guided by their personal interests and personal benefit.”

Johnnywas:

“That is not true even as a generalisation. People have a variety of motives, and observable human behaviour demonstrates this. Watch parents with a child and tell me that personal benefit is the main principle.”

I do not deny anywhere that “people have a variety of motives.” That is a well-known fact. Yet, by pointing this out, you seem to believe that it is enough to refute the formula of personal interest.

Yes, of course, human behaviour is driven by different motives. However, what you overlook is that these motives do not all carry the same weight. Some are more influential, while others are less so. In my view, the real question is not whether other motives exist, but which of them most often determines human behaviour.

My claim is that the motivation of personal interest predominates over other motives in human activity, both in everyday, long-term behaviour and in social life. It is precisely this difference in relative importance that, in my opinion, should be the subject of discussion.

You give the example of parents and their children.

Unfortunately, the forum rules do not allow the same topic to be published in different categories. In the Social Philosophy section I have a topic entitled“A Study of the Role of Personal Interest in Human Life”, where, using many real-life examples, I attempt to demonstrate empirically the predominance of personal interest in motivating human behaviour.

I would recommend that readers of this Ethics topic have a look at that discussion, as it answers a number of the questions raised here.

In that topic I specifically point out that I regard parental care for children as part of a person’s personal interests. Many people — perhaps the majority — place the interests of their child even above their own, especially when the child is very young. (As children grow older, these priorities may change.)

Therefore, with this clarification, I believe your argument concerning parents and children loses its force.

Polit:

“There are people who are genuinely prepared to sacrifice their own interests for the sake of others, and they certainly deserve respect and gratitude.”

You:

“This is a little confusing. Why do people need my gratitude for behaving naturally?”

I do not understand what is confusing here. Surely you would agree that human gratitude in such a situation does not depend on whether you personally need it or not. Gratitude is a perfectly natural response for anyone who has received selfless help, especially when another person has sacrificed something of their own.

However, in the passage from which you quoted this sentence, the emphasis is not on gratitude at all, but on the fact that such altruistic people constitute a minority among human beings.

You also wrote:

“I don’t think it’s right to begin with self-interest as a foundation. Human beings do not have a foundation of self-interest. We evolved patterns of behaviour that support family relationships, group relationships, niche relationships, as well as self-directed goals. I tried to illustrate this in more detail in my post on proper functioning.”

I would very much like to read that post. Perhaps it may influence my own views on the motivations behind human behaviour

I don’t think we disagree on a point of substance here

I think people act on a range of motivations which derive from their biological person. You seem to subsume all of these under the heading personal interests. To me, that muddies the water a little but l understand your point.

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@Elephant
Dear friend!
Your comment raised a few questions for me.

  1. I’ve reviewed several definitions of ethical egoism in various sources and even individual articles on this topic, which offer different definitions of this theory—some of which even contradict one another.
    Also, based on your comment, I didn’t fully understand your perspective. So I’ll ask you directly:
    Does ethical egoism allow—and consider it moral—for a person to pursue their own interests at the expense (to the detriment) of others’ interests, or not?
  2. Your examples involving those egoists, one of whom
    “will take an action that benefits others if that is a way to get what he wants.”
    And the second:
    “The egoist knows that harming others to get what he wants will lead to a life of danger, uncertainty, and poor health—conditions the egoist does not want. Therefore, he avoids actions that ultimately do not serve his own interests.”
    These examples are, in my view, too rare and are not typical of the characterization of selfishness, whether ethical or unethical.
  3. “If you support ethical egoism, don’t waste time on labels; instead, focus on the status of the theory: is it empirically true to the extent that it can be refuted by observing people in the real world? Can we test this theory?”
    Which theory do you have in mind: ethical egoism or my theory of Personal Interest? I think you were referring to mine after all. If so, then I acknowledge your suggestion regarding empiricism as entirely valid, because in this thread I have, in fact, presented only the formula of the Law of Personal Interest itself, without any justification for it. And it is precisely its empirical study, based on many real-life examples, that I have presented in a separate thread titled “A Study of the Role of Personal Interest in Human Life,” posted in the Social Philosophy category. Unfortunately, forum rules do not allow the same topic to be posted in different categories, so I have to redirect readers from one category to another each time, which, of course, causes them inconvenience and makes it difficult to grasp the idea comprehensively.
    So, readers of my thread can, if they wish, already find two of my threads there related to the idea of the priority of self-interest. I’d like to note in advance that I’ll be posting a whole series of subsequent threads there as well, in which I’ll try to demonstrate, in a systematic and empirical manner, the operation of the Law of Self-Interest in various spheres of social life

@Jonnywas.

“I don’t think we disagree on anything substantial.

I think people act based on a range of motives that stem from their biological nature. It seems to me that you’re categorizing all of this as personal interests. In my view, that complicates matters a bit, but I understand your point of view.”

I, too, like you, think that people are driven by a range of motives. But I don’t categorize all of this as personal interests. Perhaps this is precisely what, in your view, complicates the situation. I maintain that, among this range of motives, it is precisely the motive of personal interest that drives most people in most situations where their interests intersect with—and even more so, conflict with—the interests of others.

No. This is the most misconception about ethical egoism. Prioritizing self-interest doesn’t entail abusing others. That’s why they’re also called rational egoist, because a moral act that self-destruct is irrational.

Because you are confusing our ordinary usage of egoism with the philosophical one. All of us were first exposed to the vulgar usage of the word before we knew about philosophy. So it is understandable we are biased against the word. The ego is our view of our self. See Descartes’s cogito.

The theory I had in mind is ethical egoism, nothing else. If you believe your topic is something else, then I guess I have nothing else to say in this thread.