Entropy: Phenomenon or Idea?

[Meta_U]

@noAxioms

By nothing leaving it, and nothing affecting it from outside. Per definition.

A system, as defined in thermodynamics, cannot be infinite. The defining feature of a system is that it has a boundary which separates it from it’s surroundings, so that it can be studied as a whole. The proposal of an infinite system is completely contradictory.

[Patterner]

@boundless

All I’m saying is that the understanding of the ‘law of natures’ that we now have in physics isn’t enough to explain the arising of life.

Maybe not. We don’t have a particularity strong theory, to my knowledge.

@boundless

And IMO all the characteristics of life can’t be reduced to what we know when we study physics.

Which characteristics of life do you have in mind?

[Elephant]

@boundless

However, life is there, so if we believe that it can be explained, we should have a theory that explains it. And IMO all the characteristics of life can’t be reduced to what we know when we study physics.

Really?
I couldn’t help but notice when I jumped back and forth between this thread and the “We Create Reality Together” that you posted this:

Anyway, I believe that the common feature is the idea that the ‘agent’ that measures/acts cannot disregard their own contribution. Even in physics, at the end of the day, measurements are interaction and an interaction changes all the parties that interact. So, both a pure ‘objectivity’ and a pure ‘subjectivity’ are approximations.

[boundless]

@Patterner

Which characteristics of life do you have in mind?

@Elephant

Really?

The fact that each living organism acts like a whole entity that also responds to the environment in order to preserve itself is hard to explain with only what we know from physics. It can be argued that the ‘physical laws’ we know allow life but allowing life isn’t the same thing as explaining it.

[Patterner]

I gotcha. I thought you had specific characteristics in mind.

[noAxioms]

@T_Clark

When I drop a stone and it falls to the ground, that’s a phenomenon.

I would have said that the phenomenon is you seeing/describing it falling to the ground.

@Meta_U

A system, as defined in thermodynamics, cannot be infinite.

So you’re saying that it is meaningless to describe the universe as thermodynamically closed.

It is common to consider the universe as a single system.

@[physics stack exchange](https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/11701/why-it-is-said-that-universe-is-an-isolated-system)

The universe is by definition of the word isolated, because it contains everything by definition, and thus there can be no exchange of energy with anything. If there could be, it would be counted within the universe.

[Meta_U]

@noAxioms

So you’re saying that it is meaningless to describe the universe as thermodynamically closed.

Yes, I believe system theory is quite limited in its applicability. However, some people seem to think its applicability is unlimited, and so they think it can be applied where its application would really be misleading, or useless at best. This I believe is the case when people think that the universe can be represented as a system.

[Delirium]

The 2^{nd} law of thermodynamics: \Delta S \geq \frac{Q}{T}

The entropy of a closed system always increases. It’s the basis of irreversible transformations, these defining the arrow of time, past \to future.

It’s essentially a statistical law, S = k_B \ln \Omega, where \Omega is the number of microstates that correspond to a particular macrostate. The more microstates a macrostate includes the likelier it is to be. “Disorder” simply refers to larger number of microstates.

Is entropy something real? AFAIK it is as real as density, \frac{\text{mass}}{\text{volume}}, is. If you think one is real then the other must be real as well.

Entropy, I was told, is one of the counterarguments against evolution: The logic is simple. How can life (complexity) arise in disorder. A physicist explains it quite well. Ab initio (BB) low entropy (this is an unsolved problem in physics), at the end low entropy (heat death), in between complexity as entropy increases. The sun emits light at low entropy and the earth radiates light into space at high entropy. Interesting stuff happen between these 2 events. This is of course just 1 POV.

Furthermore the entropy at the beginning of the universe is <<< then the entropy sufficient for life, squashing the FTA for God. Was God being extra sure?