Considering a Newborn's Sense of Self and Drive To Thrive

Under the Philosophy of Mind board, there’s an ongoing thread: Does a baby already have a preconceptual worldview? I sort of jumped into the middle of it because, well, because I’m Napa with babies and children being at the center of long stretches of my life, and the backdrop for my own “mindscape” and it’s an endlessly fascinating topics.

I made a few comments, received some good feedback and found myself musing on it this afternoon. To be clear I’m no scholar and speak from personal experience and observations so had much to chew on.

An early observation was that worldview’s definition is a slippery thing. But as the formal concept was becoming more understandable it seemed reasonable to claim that newborns, indeed don’t have a “worldview”.

But that misses the more important thing that a newborn does possess.

That is, a very keen self-view, that is awareness of a biological self that possesses a suite of evolutionary imperative and tools to drive to thrive, along with a metaphorical flow-chart of how to get there.

First, know what to do with those boobies, Next figure out what’s tingling at the ends of these arms? And so on. ;-}

Seems to me worldview is where interaction comes into it. That is, the accumulation of the world of experiences through as they process through each child’s unique perceptual/emotional filters.

It is interacting with the world that creates an ever evolving worldview, one experience brick upon another.

Also, all this seems like another line of evidence pointing at the central importance of “interaction” for animal (and human) thinking & consciousness processes to unfold.

Thanks.
What’s this sound like to you?

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That’s a bit disheartening.
9 views and not one comment.
Was this post poorly constructed?

Or is the idea of physical reality, Self and biological imperative off the table?

Simply trying to get my bearing over here and it can’t be done confined to my own mindscape.

Thanks

Some of us don’t mature into adulthood for a very long time. Circumstances may not permit the development of the mind (wars, social dysfunction, etc.). Many childhood traits persist in such individuals much into their 20s and even 40s or 50s.

The self-view you mention is drawn from your experience with children and all I have to say is it jibes with the self-serving nature of feeding, playing, asking (for things),

Now scratch my back

Agreed, it alines with straight-forward biological understanding.

You think?

:wink:

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In my experience females become grounded better/earlier than males. “Children. I work with children” ~ Wonder woman (Batman, Flash, Aquaman are fighting over something trivial, 2017 Justice League).

Animal studies could be useful. Most animals, definitey not kangaroos, drop out of the womb and in a matter of few minutes are able to stand on their feet and move about … crucial few minutes.

This self-view which you attribute to infants is probably rudimentary (the sense organs aren’t fully functional for quite some time) and perhaps you’re reading too much into their behavior, along with trying to effect a mapping that, at least prima facie, seems misguided.

Well constructed post

But development isn’t one of subjects I feel knowledgeable on

I wonder if you’d be interested in this article about why people can’t remember being infants:

Why don’t we remember being a baby?

Babies do form memories, it’s just that they become inaccessible as the hippocampus grows and develops.

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How ironic. Your previous post gives the response to your last misguided one.

The Answers are in Evolution. :wink:

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Thanks for the tip. Will do. Regarding baby memory, the other thing to remember is that like in evolution, everything builds upon those memories that are first laid down.
Suggesting those baby experiences and imprints are mighty critical to a child ultimate outcomes, whether they are remembered or not.

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Evolution is a theory, an upgraded hypothesis. It’s powerful but not at par with Einstein’s ToR. There are rumors that the ToR is due for replacement (re dark energy, dark matter, inconsistency with QM).

What counts as a childhood trait and why?

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Things like crying, selfishness, believing in the supernatural, black n white thinking, etc. These form the child’s mind.

There are various “theories” of evolution. That’s all about how we human understand it.

Evolution itself is a given.

Try a simple mind experiment.
a) Is the world you experience a real physical thing in all its glorious biological and geological complexity?
b) Or is it a figment of your imagination?
c) Or could a superpower have been capable of popping it into existence and fine tuning it when desired?

I’m a pragmatist and only one of those options makes any intellectual sense for me. For the first one, we have copious amounts of physical evidence to support how it developed over deep time.

Comparing ToR to Evolution feels contrived, if not gratuitous. ToR is built out of mathematics and intellectual concepts supported by wisps of evidence requiring most incredible machinery along with all sorts of assumptions.

Whereas Evolution is biology and biology is evolution — and the evidence for it everywhere we look.

ToR and ToE are both theories, a fancy term for good hypotheses. Theories provide grounds for reality. Scientific theories are always provisional. They can be revised or even deleted, depending on what pops up in the evidence section. The ToR faces challenges when describing star motion in gslaxies. People have gone so far as to propose exotic mstter. They however don’t rule out new physics i.e. Einstein’s grip on physics is loosening. Hopefully the ToR will execute a gracful exit if such comes to pass.