# Why Philosophy Converges on the Hard Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Philosophy of Mind\ **Created:** [September 19, 2026, 7:58pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158 "2026-09-19T19:58:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![invicta](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/invicta/32/1147_2.png) [@invicta](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/invicta)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:05am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/165 "2026-10-09T00:05:13Z")
Not a mischaracterisation at all but the consequence of your idea that all the brain does is self hallucinate which implies no grounding in the real world. Basically you’re saying that we’re all zombies in the sense that pain isn’t real but a hallucination. Your error seems to be of miscategorisation of consciousness calling it a hallucination when it is certainly not whatever it may be. ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:08am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/166 "2026-10-09T00:08:02Z")
By the way, I am not advocating dualism of any kind. Hallucinations arise from an electrochemical organ. The tricky part is how, not why. In this regard, I must admit that the brain has gotten one over on us all. Hallucinations are it’s bread and butter since it lacks direct contact with what lies beyond its cranial chamber. ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:16am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/167 "2026-10-09T00:16:34Z")
How can I miscategorize consciousness? What does that even mean? You yourself claim ignorance as to what “it” may be. I am attempting to understand what I am dealing with every day, and I extend that attempt to my philosophical brethren. You, on the other hand, sound defensive, which is the trademark of one who is losing something they hold dear. Such a person doesn’t want to know the Truth of their condition. I hope that does not include you, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![j\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@j\_j](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/j_j)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:16am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/168 "2026-10-09T00:16:59Z")
> [@m\_t](#): > > By the way, I am not advocating dualism of any kind. Hallucinations arise from an electrochemical organ. How is this not dualism ? I mean you at least come off from over here as contrasting hallucination stuff with “real” external/brain/electrochemical stuff. ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:20am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/169 "2026-10-09T00:20:52Z")
Because the hallucination is in your head. The brain contains the same element that we find outside of it. No need for two separate realms. One’s sense of self is crafted by the brain in response to its sensory stimuli, not in spite of it. ---
**Author:** ![j\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@j\_j](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/j_j)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:21am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/170 "2026-10-09T00:21:11Z")
> [@m\_t](#): > > You, on the other hand, sound defensive, which is the trademark of one who is losing something they hold dear. Such a person doesn’t want to know the Truth of their condition. I’m an cynical-ironic-whatever atheist. I note here that this “quest for Truth” echoes the religious language that I eventually put behind me. The word “truth” tends to be associated with the One Right Way ---- it is the monological residue of logocentric monotheism. Or one might suspect or suggest. Nietzsche questions this “will to Truth.” What **is** this interest in truth ? Why not something less grand, like a better way to peel the banana ? I am partially joking to show that this kind of rhetoric is two-edged. ---
**Author:** ![invicta](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/invicta/32/1147_2.png) [@invicta](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/invicta)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:23am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/171 "2026-10-09T00:23:40Z")
Just because I do not know what consciousness is does not automatically mean I must accept your premise that it’s a hallucination for it certainly is not but can be under hallucinogens. Consciousness is awareness and thinking but this definition is not all for we’re still trying to understand it. You on the other hand seem to have an answer for it which I strongly reject as I’ve argued in prior posts. So I’m gonna restate it: if someone pricks you with a needle then the consequence of your hallucination theory of consciousness is not only that the needle must not be real but only the pain is or much worse the pain itself is not real either but a hallucination . This is just old school Berkeleyian idealism which has been refuted thus. ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:23am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/172 "2026-10-09T00:23:54Z")
Truth is simply the telling of what is real, which is what persists regardless of your preferences. That is what we seek, not what we defend. I am not evangelizing, I am discovering. That’s why I joined this forum. ---
**Author:** ![j\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@j\_j](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/j_j)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:25am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/173 "2026-10-09T00:25:29Z")
I enjoy your posts and I am glad you joined us. My points are offered in a friendly if challenging spirit. I used to basically see things as you do now. So I’m just trying to see how you’d deal with the same concerns. For me they were decisive. I had to abandon **the entire dualist framework** to resolve the cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![LordKing777](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/lordking777/32/1368_2.png) [@LordKing777](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/LordKing777)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:30am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/174 "2026-10-09T00:30:58Z")
> [@m\_t](#): > > Hallucinations Consciousness is unique ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:33am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/176 "2026-10-09T00:33:46Z")
Your consciousness is unique and so is mine. Yet, so is the Taj Mahal. Just because something is ours does not make it exempt from the laws of nature. ---
**Author:** ![LordKing777](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/lordking777/32/1368_2.png) [@LordKing777](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/LordKing777)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:38am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/177 "2026-10-09T00:38:52Z")
> [@m\_t](#): > > Your consciousness is unique and so is mine. You exist, this isn’t just a dream, and the people around you are real, conscious individuals with their own thoughts and experiences ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:42am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/178 "2026-10-09T00:42:18Z")
Once again, _Perception_ is the waking dream, constrained by sensory stimuli and painful consequences. The consequences are real enough that we take careful need to avoid pain, while pursuing pleasure. What is the belief-immune Reality that upholds both our bodies and the consequences we perceive? That I have yet to unveil… ---
**Author:** ![WhoKnows](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/whoknows/32/1145_2.png) [@WhoKnows](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WhoKnows)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:42am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/179 "2026-10-09T00:42:57Z")
> [@m\_t](#): > > After all, the human brain is an adept swindler; it tricks most, if not all of us, every time we fall asleep or watch a movie. Hallucination is it’s _specialty_. Anthropomorphization of the human brain. Can you explain how the brain “tricks and swindles” and what it is tricking and swindling? > [@m\_t](#): > > How do we know that consciousness is one such trick? Because when we apply anesthesia to the cerebral organ, it _loses_ consciousness. Not only is consciousness not lost through this process, but it returns with the personality still intact. > [@m\_t](#): > > When the brain becomes physiologically impaired, consciousness, it’s expensive adaption, becomes _dispensable_, as it’s not necessary for basic survival. Yet here it is, part of the process. Can you explain why that is? ---
**Author:** ![WhoKnows](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/whoknows/32/1145_2.png) [@WhoKnows](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WhoKnows)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:51am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/180 "2026-10-09T00:51:28Z")
> [@LordKing777](#): > > > [@m\_t](#): > > > > You said you think they are real. That is the hallucination. Thought itself. > > Because there is evidence that they exist independently of my perception. Their behavior, communication, and interactions with the world provide evidence that they are real individuals, each with their own subjective experiences. Treating them as mere hallucinations would require evidence that outweighs these observations. It is al very well calling such “hallucinations” but what is not explained is WHAT is having these supposed hallucinations. If the answer is “the brain” and also that the brain creates its own hallucinations to “trick and swindle” itself, then the question becomes “why does the brain hallucinate a self and then trick and swindle itself”? ---
**Author:** ![WhoKnows](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/whoknows/32/1145_2.png) [@WhoKnows](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WhoKnows)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/181 "2026-10-09T00:55:53Z")
> [@invicta](#): > > but if consciousness itself was a hallucination then we would not be able to fully function in the physical world we would jump off buildings, get hit by a car etc. Indeed - there would be no buildings or cars…because such are created through fully functional beings. Hallucinations do not build buildings. Hallucinations do not manufacture cars. Conscious, functioning beings do. ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/182 "2026-10-09T00:55:59Z")
Hello, thank you for introducing the OP. It is a thought-provoking subject that I have already greatly benefitted from. As to your questions, I hypothesize that hallucination is the brain’s evolutionary adaption to the undesirable situation it finds itself in, locked as it is inside a dark cave. Hallucination is ironically it’s only hope. In this sense, the brain swindled _us_, it’s creations. I.e., our individual sense of self and self-awareness. We should be humbled by that possibility rather than affronted. As for anesthesia, I hope you lose consciousness during your surgery or the nurse didn’t do it right. 🥴 ---
**Author:** ![WhoKnows](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/whoknows/32/1145_2.png) [@WhoKnows](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WhoKnows)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:57am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/183 "2026-10-09T00:57:43Z")
> [@m\_t](#): > > What is the belief-immune Reality that upholds both our bodies and the consequences we perceive? That I have yet to unveil… Perhaps we should hallucinate a drum roll at this point… ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 12:59am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/184 "2026-10-09T00:59:46Z")
Why does the brain want war? Why does it pursue genocide after genocide? For individual survival. Even if that means recruiting like-minded bodies to achieve it. Survival is the default spur of the brain. Survive another day no matter what it takes. Even lies. ---
**Author:** ![m\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@m\_t](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/m_t)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2026, 1:01am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158/185 "2026-10-09T01:01:14Z")
The entire philosophical community wants to know the Truth that persists regardless of the messenger. Do you hold the answer? If so, tell us when you see fit. [Previous page](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158.md?page=8) [Next page](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/why-philosophy-converges-on-the-hard-problem/3158.md?page=10)