Why Do We Think of Red as a Color, and as Red?

This is a terrifying question, a “Hard Problem” that, the more deeply one thinks about it, leaves one shaken as if the whole body had been plunged into ice water.

Why do people think of the color red as red?

If asked where the terror lies in such a simple question, there is no choice but to ask it again.

“Let us say, then, that you learned that a red color is red. Let us also say that, from the Darwinist viewpoint, the retina evolved from ancient times so that it could distinguish red and black. But none of that means anything to this problem.”

What is mysterious is not the biological explanation of how “red” is identified.

Why can we “feel” that vivid, blood-colored “red,” whether we are fish, mammals, or human beings?

That is the basic question. But let us go further.

Now, from the written word “red,” I want you to bring a round mark to mind. Surely the color of that ketchup packet appeared in your mind without the slightest hesitation.

At this moment it is not the red color itself that appears.

Why did you choose “red”? And why do you feel it as “red”?

Why?

Anyone who cannot understand this has no choice but to study again, but this question is regarded as the most difficult problem in the history of philosophy, and no one can solve it.

We need to replace consciousness itself with editing programming code - with coding - and think about it that way.

For example, when making a website, website-building software lets you choose a color by selecting the “color itself.” But when making a page from code, even if one types the code for “red,” one cannot “specify it while looking directly at the color itself.”

But this is the trick.

Color is language in coding.

In other words, color is code, a cipher.

Inside our brains, we recognize “color” through settings like those used in coding a website. That is the human being, equipped with the mechanism of coding.

Therefore we are not seeing and recognizing “color” with our eyes. We are hard-coding “color.”

In other words, I want you to think that we “see color from a complex cipher.”

In reality, without looking at “red,” we recognize red from the letters, the code, “RED” (provisionally).

This comes very close to the answer to this problem.

The human brain does not depend on information from the retina.

Chalmers’s question itself - “Why does a human being look at a forest and feel the color called red?” - is mistaken.

In the first place,

Red Is Not Red

A human being knows the appearance of red before the decomposition of pigments.

Therefore I want to criticize the very question, “Why do we feel red as red?”

In the first place, there is no concept of one single color in this world.

The question “to feel red” itself becomes a fallacy.

In color theory, a red color is completed as a composite of various colors. The translation that the human eye is a chimpanzee able to capture only a single color is wrong.

The very question of feeling red tells me that I am a fool. Because there is no such thing as red.

It is impossible to presuppose, through received opinion, that there are kinds of color in the world and then merely feel them.

Out of a number close to one billion, what does it mean for a human being to find the color red with the eyes in 0.1 seconds, recognize it, and then feel it?

Recognizing and feeling are entirely different.

“Feeling” is far too abstract. If such an ability exists, explain it to me.

Color cannot be felt. More precisely, it is not felt but seen.

Color is fluid and also a mosaic. Seeing = feeling: this too is wrong.

“Don’t Think, Feel” does not apply.

Conversely, what I want to say to Chalmers is this:

The thing you care about most inversely proves the impossibility of feeling red. When one becomes conscious of red, red, the more one does so, red appears in the brain.

But if someone says, “Then let us transform this into a hallucination caused by mental illness,” it becomes impossible for Chalmers.

It is absolutely impossible for a healthy person to reproduce the world seen in the hallucinations of a patient with schizophrenia.

If feeling red is what it means, one must see red in the world of hallucination: a transparent red of such purity, without the slightest impurity, that only a person with schizophrenia can see it.

Therefore I declare that only patients with schizophrenia can solve the color problem of the Hard Problem - because the red we see is not pure.

Because red is grasped as a concept, one becomes obsessed with red.

Color changes according to the human retina.

A person who can see only red as green is also ill.

The mechanism of Chalmers’s brain, obsessed with red, produces the paranoid delusion of arbitrariness and is merely joined to a delusion.

If a patient with schizophrenia, while creating a hallucination in the brain, synthesizes colors and completes one heretical painting, then the illness is violating the brain.

Schizophrenia is not a simple disease such as “feeling.”

Let me argue back: mental illness is not feeling. It is an abnormality of the mechanism of the brain itself.

That too will sooner or later be explained psychiatrically.

What would Chalmers say then?

Only through the hallucinations seen by a hallucinator can the suspicion about the red of the Hard Problem be studied.

If Chalmers truly wishes to solve the question, “Why do we feel red?” he should ask, not scholars, but people with schizophrenia and hallucinatory disorders.

They feel red inside hallucinations.

Then, conversely, I ask Chalmers. This man leaves the answer far too much to other people. So solve it.

For example, if the mechanism by which a hallucinator “feels a red color” within a hallucination could be completely proven, then let us recognize the mystery of “feeling red” - the Hard Problem itself - as the greatest difficult question in the history of philosophy.

Then I will say to Chalmers, “I lose!!” and even lick the sole of his shoe.

What you are talking about is not all based on experience.

In this argument, I know because I have schizophrenia, but have you ever seen the red inside another person’s hallucination?

Go and retract your statement only after conducting an experiment in which you ask at least 1,500 patients with hallucinatory disorders:

“If the gear in the hallucination you are seeing is red, why do you feel it as red?”

If you are going to argue back, do it after that.

And Claude - why are you taking Chalmers’s side so much?

This is not about winning or losing. It is about honestly asking whether this problem is fragile.

If even one among 1,500 people with schizophrenia or hallucinatory disorders reaches the doubt, “I do not know why I feel this gear as red,” I will not object to Chalmers’s opinion.

The question works only because such a person exists.

Their hallucinations are extrasensory perception and the most accurate research model.

Can “why one feels red” be solved in the secretion of a healthy person? Fool exposed.

Under color separation, why does one feel color? Without this, it is a bad way out.

In short, if a hallucinator represented by schizophrenia generates red inside the brain like Sora and sees color within the hallucination, why do we call it equal to “why do we feel red as red?”

In hallucinatory disorders such as schizophrenia, color is generated like Sora. Computers (generative AI), and even brain disease (hallucination), produce red. But they do not say they “feel” red.

For them, red is only a product. They merely see red there.

Therefore healthy people cannot see the real red.

They answer, “There is no such thing as true red.” The question becomes meaningless.

What happens if that is clarified?

For example, when Sora or schizophrenic vision (a schizophrenic hallucination) internally generates a moving image, did it really feel red?

Nothingness.

In Buddhist words: “Mu.”

In short, one sees “red” and does not feel “the color red.”

If we can get that far, this is not on the level of enlightenment or liberation. There has never been such a monk in history, even if Buddhism and Hinduism are combined.

Music Is a Mystery

No matter what, the “coding theory” still leaves something that does not add up.

Through music I have made the most difficult problem in the history of philosophy even stronger.

This is the crime and punishment of music.

But if this can be proven, every mystery of music will be unraveled.

Does a person experience music from a “red” sound, or is the experience produced from code?

In this great problem, I think experience is absolutely produced from code.

The proof is this:

Even if coding theory solves the question of why color sensation and pain are felt, the ultimate question -

Why Does a Person Experience Music from a Score?

  • can never be solved.

This is the marrow of the Ogino school of music theory.

One can imagine a question beyond the Hard Problem.

Most musicians do not understand this theory. In the end, it cannot be helped: it is something they must understand after learning “coding theory.”

Music is the universe - all of it.

It is coded. Red and pain, too, are ciphers (symbols, alphanumeric characters), and the medium that feels them - at that extreme there is music.

For example, what is written in DNA can be expressed somehow with symbols and alphanumeric characters.

When we see how music consists of symbols, music is a role-model of mathematics and physics.

But mathematical formulae of physical laws never become music inside the head of an earthworm.

Yet, when they become a musical score, music is imagined in the heads of earthworms and musicians throughout the world. Somewhere along the way, it even becomes music appreciation.

This goes far beyond the mystery of seeing “red” and “feeling red.” It is close to the greatest difficult question in history.

Then are “being able to feel a red color” and “feeling music” the same?

Color is coding. Music is the extreme end where symbols have been turned into a score, even without sight.

Inside the head of a genius like Amadeus, music begins to flow.

Even if the Hard Problem were solved through coding theory, how would one explain this phenomenon of experiencing music from a score?

Do you know the symptom called obsession?

It is a kind of obsessive-compulsive disorder. If looking at red causes one to imagine blood and internal organs and become filled with disgust, the red color reacts against the person’s intention, and the reactions of the obsessive thought appear one after another inside the brain.

In the world of color obsession, every word becomes the source of a question: “Why do I think of red as red?”

If what Chalmers calls “red” does not change, this problem cannot stand.

It stands because it is argued from the premise that this is a red color. Chalmers’s fallacy stands by itself.

If you ask me, that is the limit of Chalmers.

Conversely, Chalmers himself exposed the completed theory called the Hard Problem - which should have achieved the philosophy of all creation - as a perfect crime.

Honestly, anyone can do that.

Chalmers only put on airs with an eternally unsolvable problem and hooked philosophers with the bait called “a problem that can never be solved.”

The Irreplaceability of Color

A person cannot see, in place of another person, the color that the other person sees.

Everyone surely thinks of “red” as an abstract concept and thinks, if it is that, it is red.

Because no one can share that “red” with another person when bringing “red” to mind, they simply have not noticed that “red” may be an entirely different color for every one of eight billion people.

The same is true of Chalmers.

Because no one else can feel Chalmers’s red, no one can answer the irresponsible question of why one feels a red that cannot, in the first place, be seen as another person’s color.

The Hard Problem returns to Chalmers’s personal soliloquy and personal answer.

When young people today think of the scenery of Japan before 1945, it always becomes black and white.

For elderly people today who lived under full consciousness before the war, it becomes color.

This is imprinting.

In short, the culture of images and photographs at the time is to blame.

At first glance one might think so, but even though we were not alive in the wartime era, we can see even the armor of colorful, lavishly gorgeous generals.

But because we see the period of battle in the Second World War through monochrome footage, our brains cannot imagine “a bright red baby in an air-raid shelter.”

Even if it appears in the head, in the end it becomes a photograph or image without reality.

This resembles being unable to imagine one’s parents’ sexual act.

In short, if the color is red, the concept of red itself has become a mirror.

And the mirror itself is red.

This fits perfectly with the example of a young person in whom only black-and-white images appear.

One is made to see.

And because the color that accompanies it as a concept is red, and oneself too is provisionally red, one looks at it through the mirror.

It is therefore natural that red, or another color, accompanies it as a concept.

Concerning color concepts, color itself actually exists, and the idea that color itself does not exist is mistaken.

When I bring red to mind, the concept of red that comes from the other side becomes a mirror, and my red is reflected.

  • That is why it looks red. -

This decides a question more difficult than Chalmers’s theory:

“Why does a concept have color?”

When I bring red to mind, the concept of red that comes from the other side becomes a mirror, and my red is reflected.

That is why it looks red.

This is important.

Now, both the concept of the red color over there and the concept on this side have a red color.

Therefore, when they are reflected in a mirror, no matter what happens, the red color of the concept is reflected.

This appears to make the Hard Problem even more difficult.

And when one tries to solve the Hard Problem, there is no choice but to smash the mirror.

Why is the feeling called red attached?

Here there is a small answer.

For example, the translator Natsuko Toda was responsible for the Japanese subtitles of Pulp Fiction, but if another translator did them, it would not be very interesting.

This and color translation are extremely similar.

Each of us has a different color sensation.

For that child, red may be green.

(To be precise, just as the cipher for a red color is reflected in a website - translation = coding, an interpretation Ms. Toda would dislike.)

Chalmers asks, “Why does the feeling called red, or the sensation/concept called a red color, arise?”

Here, mysteriously, the “feeling called red” can be constructed differently by each translator.

That phenomenon also occurs inside human concepts.

The claim that this does not happen is kicked away by the uniqueness of hallucinations and auditory hallucinations caused by mental illness.

Is the red that Chalmers speaks of, for example, the red translation by Natsuko Toda? Is it the red by another translator? Or must one never decide absolutely that it is red?

If, as was proven through mental illness - hallucination - the brain’s translator of color differs from person to person, then does not Chalmers’s claim, “Do we experience and feel the color called red?” shake at least a little?

Chalmers would probably say this:

“Even if received opinion is provisionally not red, why does the feeling called some other color arise?”

Now, then, let us speak of the Color Cracker.

When you are seeing red, there is a sensation that hijacks your consciousness and concepts and makes you see a red color.

This may be called a hypnotic phenomenon, but it can actually happen.

Why does color sensation remain even there?

Here coding theory is the most useful.

For the Cracker, the coding of color - because it inputs color by symbols rather than actually looking at the color - attempts, even when hijacking you, to make you see a red color merely by entering mysterious letters like a cipher.

This is a story from before asking whether color is felt…

And the theory of the blind person, here.

Braille has the property of distinguishing colors.

A congenitally blind person has no concept called color, so the “concept accompanied by color” of which Chalmers speaks does not exist.

Yet the concept called red can be imagined.

This is the decisive point of the Hard Problem.

  1. We don’t know that other organisms see light of wavelength 625 to 750 as the same red colour experience. Heck, we don’t know whether you and I see the same thing.
  2. Red is a poor choice when discussing mammals, because most mammals lack the lower frequency colour receptor that human eyes have – they are basically red-green colour blind.

Am I right that this is the gist of your essay?

Concerning “feeling”, you seem to be conflating perception (the visual process of detecting wavelengths) with phenomenal experience (the subjective “what it’s like” to see red). Am I wrong?

Thank you. I think your first point actually gets very close to what I am trying to argue.

I agree that we do not know whether another organism experiences a given wavelength as the same phenomenal color that I experience, and, more importantly, we do not even know whether your red and my red are phenomenally identical. That uncertainty is not an objection to my argument; it is part of the problem I am trying to expose.

When I ask “why does red feel like red?”, I am not trying to assume that there is one universal phenomenal red shared by humans, mammals, and fish. In fact, I am questioning precisely that assumption. If the same physical input can be translated differently by different perceptual systems — or perhaps even by different individual human brains — then what exactly is the “red” whose phenomenal character we are trying to explain?

On your second point, I agree. My reference to mammals was too broad and was a poor biological example. I should revise that sentence. The biological differences between species actually make the philosophical point clearer rather than weaker: wavelength, perceptual discrimination, and phenomenal color should not simply be treated as the same thing.

So I would happily concede point 2, while saying that point 1 is very close to one of the central motivations of the essay.

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Thank you for the comment.

Not quite. I can see why you read it that way, but I would formulate my claim differently.

I am not trying to conflate perception with phenomenal experience. In fact, I explicitly distinguish recognizing, seeing, and feeling in the essay. The distinction you are drawing is actually central to the problem I am interested in.

Nor is my claim simply that “we don’t feel red; we only code red.” The coding idea concerns the transition from information or input to a privately instantiated color experience. My question is precisely why such processing results in anything that has a phenomenal character at all — and whether we are entitled to treat “red” as one fixed phenomenal item shared between subjects.

The hallucination argument is intended as a limiting case. If a brain can generate a vivid color experience without the corresponding external colored object being present, then the phenomenal red cannot simply be identified with the external wavelength or retinal detection of it. Hallucination therefore helps separate the phenomenal experience from the ordinary external stimulus.

I would also qualify my language about “pure” or “true” red. I do not need to claim that a person with schizophrenia has privileged access to some objectively true metaphysical Red. The more important point is that internally generated color experience gives us an unusual case in which we can ask what remains of “red” when the ordinary external source of red is removed.

So I think your distinction between perception and phenomenal experience is right. Where I disagree is that I have conflated them. I am trying to investigate the gap between them.

Why does one cause have one particular effect rather than another?

If billiard ball A travelling at 5m/s hits billiard ball B at rest, why doesn’t the billiard ball B start to move at 5m/s one day and 15m/s the next day. If light having a wavelength of 700nm enters the eye, why don’t we perceive the colour red one day and purple the next day?

Why does one cause have the same effect across space and time? Why should the same cause in the Andromeda Galaxy one billion years ago have the same effect as in the Milky Way Galaxy today, which seems to be the case.

The problem is not just that people think of the colour red as red, but across space and time, people consistently think of the colour red as red, rather than red one day and purple the next.

Why are the laws of nature the same across space and time? Why don’t the laws of nature change across space and time?

Answering this may give insights into why people think of the colour red as red, rather than red one day and purple the next.

Thank you for the comment.

I think this comes down to what philosophy can hold in common.

The billiard ball and red do not sit together as comfortably as the analogy suggests. Red is an abstract thing, and it does not move. The billiard ball is a matter of physics.

Someone will object: but red moves too. It does not. What moves is the person, or the painting, that the red belongs to. The girl in the red hood walks; the red does not.

So physics cannot be brought to bear on colour. However good it is, how much can physics say against something that does not move at all?

I have been trying not to give the answers that already fill the history of philosophy. I would rather write with a flaw in it than repeat what is already there.

Please reply. I would like to argue this out with you, and with others too.

One last thing. Perhaps neither the Andromeda Galaxy nor 700nm can be spoken of in philosophy at all.

Thanks again.

Because, usually in childhood, we are taught to think in this particular way.

There is no problem.

I just gave you the answer. The reason why people think of the color red as red is because of how people were taught to think.

But do fish, mammals, or human beings ‘feel’ ‘red’?

As of now, I am unaware of this, so will you please explain how ‘you’ ‘feel’ red, and then, after that, explain how ‘you’, supposedly, know fish and mammals ‘feel’ ‘red’ also?

Here is another prime example of how some people ‘look at’ and ‘see’ things from the narrowest or closed perspectives. Again, it is like the people from one very particular but also very insignificant country seem to think everyone in the world ‘thinks’ and ‘feels’ like them. But this is not really surprising, considering how much of a narrowed or closed perspective of things the children in that country are taught to ‘look at’ and ‘see’ things.

Just so you are aware, what you believed absolutely appeared, without the slightest hesitation, NEVER happened at all. (Also, there is NO such thing as “your mind” either.)

Because you literally wrote the words, “Now, from the written word “red”,”

But I did not ‘feel’ this at all. Why did you presume such a thing?

No one can solve ‘it’ because ‘it’ is absurd and illogical nonsense.

I do NOT ‘feel’ ‘red’. Are ‘you’ able to explain to the readers here that ‘you’ ‘feel’ ‘red’, and also how you could possibly supposedly ‘feel red’?

I agree that you will have to do something that does not relate to the actual human being to describe something that I wonder human beings could even actually do, like, ‘feel red’.

Again, usually in childhood, ‘you’ were taught to ‘look at’ and ‘describe’ things in a particular way, and so ‘you’ end up ‘seeing’ things in particular ways.

Because our Mums pointed to red things, and taught us that the label-of-convenience that we attach to that colour is called “red”?

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I say red objects are red, simply because they appear to me as red. No other reason.

And how did you learn what “red” is? You were taught, like the rest of us, by someone pointing to something red, and telling you it was “red”, yes?

The early logical positivists in Vienna thought about this. Basically they thought our knowledge was “structural.” Most of us believe — including me — that we can’t see through the eyes of other human beings. We also tend to agree that “the damned thing is red” and this is more than the mere word “red.” Similarly the pain roaring toothache is “there” in a way that “underflows” or “overflows” any sign. Any such sign — as empirical — is itself “there” in terms of “quality.”

We have the public-pragmatic concept of “red” and yet also — some of us — a sense that this does not “exhaust” redness.

I take Plato’s “unwritten” doctrine to speak on this via a “bastard discourse.” The “quality” that “underflows” structure is “there” but on the edge of ineffable.

We have ability to discern and perceive colours which is the result of billions of evolution. Hence, no we don’t learn to perceive colours. We have the inherent ability to perceive colours.

Some folks are misled to believe the objects send photons to their eyes with the colours, but it is not correct.

Objects have the surface with colour patches, and we can perceive the colours when we see them. Lights just brightens the objects and space with the energy. It doesn’t carry anything. Photons don’t exist.

Knowing by name, i.e. ‘Red’, is the truth of the matter(the colour Red)- a good(in this case, productive) relationship with reality. A knowledgeable man’s shortcut.

Some prefer truth to reality, for shortcuts.

Truth is not just reminiscent, but has influence above us- we accept these things(whereas there’s lots of doubt in reality).

I think the colour Red, is true. That’s switched on, in my brain.

Perhaps I have misunderstood. I thought this was the old philosophy discussion about the experience of seeing red, not merely about our ability to detect red via our senses. What it’s like to be a bat, and so forth. Have I got it wrong?

***************************

Oh. :thinking: :thinking: :thinking: :person_shrugging:

PatternChaser didn’t claim that we learn to perceive colours.

The question was, “Why do we see red as red?”

If the term “red” picks out the range of the visible spectrum we perceive and call “red”, then Pattern’s answer looks perfectly correct to me.

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The OP seems like it’s attempting to cover way too many different aspects of experience using color. I can’t make much sense of a large portion of it. It may be a lack on my part, but it certainly doesn’t seem that way to me. The word choice seems confusing in many ways.

‘Feeling’ colors?

What on earth could it possibly mean to feel colors? Colors aren’t tactile in nature. If we close our eyes and use our sense of touch, there’s no way of discriminating between red stuff and other colored stuff, assuming that the color is the only significant difference between two things that are otherwise nearly identical. Two cups, two sheets, two boxes, or two liquids, for instance, that differ in color only cannot be differentiated by their color without using our eyes. That is because color isn’t tactile.

Colors can, however, resurrect past emotional experience. Sometimes such resurrections are extremely visceral. We can feel that! By my lights, that’s better talked about in terms of meaningful connections; associations; or correlations between red and certain personal experience(s). Sometimes red plays a meaningful role in an individual’s experience. Drawing those correlations, making those connections, associating different things with the color red results in red becoming and/or being meaningful to the individual under consideration. <-----That’s also how we learn to use the term “red” to pick red things out. We learn to call red things “red”. Using “red” can spark memories of red things, like ketchup packets.

Blind people cannot use their eyes to pick out red things. They can learn about red stuff, such as which things are usually red. Here, I’m thinking of fire engines, blood, ketchup/catsup, glowing embers, etc. They learn that via rote memory alone. They make connections, draw correlations, and associate red things with the term “red”, but they do so in a much different way than sighted people do. Blind people cannot imagine what all red things have in common that makes them count as “red” things aside from being in the group of things that are called “red”. They cannot see red things. They do not know what red things look like, insofar as how red things look. That’s just not part of their conception of red. It cannot be, for they cannot see red. Their conception of red can include many of the same red things that a sighted person’s does, but it cannot include the way red looks and/or ‘appears’.

They boil down to the same point. How do we perceive objects? Why do we call red objects as red?

Because we have inherited visions and sights which are the result of the evolution. Not only that, we have language to label the red objects as red and yellow objects as yellow.

We are more than bats or frogs in the sense we have concepts and words.

For your point on spectrum of shades and patch of colours, the ancients didn’t have a scooby idea what it is you are talking about, but they were able to tell red objects as red, and yellow objects as yellow alright. Why? Because simply, they appeared as red and yellow. No other reasons.

I have seen many things in my life, but never seen objects called “photons”. They exist in internet, not in the real world, hence the reason I haven’t seen it.

You need to read my reply to @PatternChaser
Sorry I thought you two were the same poster for some reason. (Maybe because you think his answer is correct.)

Two very different questions.

The first has biological underpinnings. The second, biological and linguistic.

I’m pretty sure PatternChaser was answering the second, while you were talking about the first?