What Created God?

Okay, so I’m not religious but from how I understand it people say God created the Universe and life. But then what created God? At some point there has to be some scientific thing that created God, because matter cannot be created nor destroyed, so at some point there must have been something else, right?

If Bob created God, who created Bob?

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Bob created Bob. He is almighty. :raised_hand: :raised_back_of_hand: Praise Bob.

Bob’s like a worm where he just divides.

Choosing is the mechanism for creation. A decision creates the new information of which way the decision turned out.

All that is defined in terms of doing the job of choosing, is subjective, which means that it is identified with a chosen opinion. This includes God, but it also includes emotions and personal character (like courage).

So what is subjective, creates what is objective, by decision. As for example, the baby (objective) was born from love (subjective). Which means some decisions took place, and as a matter of chosen opinion, love is said to have done the job of making the decisions turn out the way they did. You can also choose a different opinion, that it was not love, and it would be an equally logically valid opinion.

So the universe came to be by decision, which is the only known mechanism for creation. And then you can choose a subjective opinion on the issue in what spirit the decision was made. Which means that your idea that matter cannot be created or destroyed is wrong, or actually that idea is not really wrong but it just has limited use.

Basically creators cannot be created. What can be created is some organization of decision-making processes, as for instance in the human body. But the emotions and personal character doing the actual deciding, aren’t creations.

Not sure I followed, but I decide things and I was created from something.

And the philosophical validation for that is?

Death.

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Interesting question.

Matter can be created if there’s a matter-antimatter asymmetry in quantum fluctuations (unsolved mystery in cosmogony).

Matter can be destroyed with antimatter.

Positive energy (mass) + Negative energy (gravity) = 0. A Universe from nothing (book).

God is eternal or God is autopoietic. Either no need for a God-creator or sui generis.

Man created god. All the religions of the world couldn’t be more obviously a creation of the men of their time.
Why did man create god? Thats a better question considering, again, how obvious it is that god is a construct of man.

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Classical theism defines God as eternal and uncreated. Be careful not to apply a rule for contingent objects to a non-contingent, necessarily-existing being.

You presume that God is material, but to the believer, God is the cause of matter, and of space and time—the first cause. So your argument doesn’t hit the target.

To the theistic worldview, God is a necessary being, whereas everything God created is contingent. Only contingent things, which might not have existed, need to have been caused. This is where to apply the pressure philosophically, without the presupposition that God is material and thereby contingent.

There are probably many ways of applying that pressure, e.g., asking if a necessary being is even a coherent notion. But personally, I don’t tackle theistic arguments on their own ground and prefer to take a more anthropological route: God is something like our own projection, the language of creation entirely derived from the human experience of agency, of making things. Check out Feuerbach, Durkheim, Marx, and—more radically—Nietzsche, if that direction interests you.

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then what created the worm? where does everything start?

Then what created Death?

You said deciders aren’t created, and I used the counterexample of myself, which is a decider who was created. My proof that I was created is my existence, which is consistent with your position that in order to exist, you must have been created given that something can’t come from nothing.

The OP argues that creation ex nihlio (from nothing) cannot occur because it would violate the law of conservation of energy. Your anti-matter example doesn’t contradict that because the “destruction” of matter you reference doesn’t suggest complete elimination, but instead means the matter becomes pure energy but still exists, still with the same cumulative mass it had previously.

If your premise is that every event has a cause, then you cannot posit a first uncaused cause because it would violate your premise. That leads to an infinite chain of causes without beginning. 5 was caused by 4 by 3 by 2 back to negative infinity.

If you take that approach, you can then say that God always existed. You can also say that matter always existed.

That, of course, begs the question of where the whole system came from. As in, I came from my mother, and she from her mother and we can then explain that for any person as coming from his mother before him. But it doesn’t explain where this whole mother/child set up came from.

I keep coming back to this question because I can never fully resolve it. The issue in my mind relates to the concept of eternity … something that has always been and ties in with the concept of time too. Because by definition eternity or eternal things have always been then the question of where it came from no longer applies.

the issue arises when we apply the same logic to finite things as we do to infinite things. I.e we think that infinite things must have a beginning just like finite things do but they don’t.

Not sure if the current scientific perspective such as the big bang theory rules out eternal things existing as the big bang created space time and matter.

I’ve heard of a theory of cyclic universe which would imply an eternal universe which expands collapses expands ad Infinitum although not sure of the evidence for such a theory

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The result of a matter-antimatter interaction is nothing. I don’t think anything particularly interesting can be seen in a Feynman diagram of such an event.

Anyway the total energy of the universe = 0.