Let ‘us’ have a ‘look at’ the claim that it is ‘I’ who is being obtuse here.
Firstly, ‘I’ am expected to know, exactly, what ‘this one’ means by ‘obtuse’, precisely.
Secondly, I point out that NO one trusts what they consider to be an “unreliable source”, and ‘this one’ could not fathom and understand this most simplest idea and concept.
Thirdly, ‘this one’ still does not seem to understand that one can just as easily and simply claim that the “atheist’s bible” is an “unreliable source” as another can claim that the “theist’s bible” is an “unreliable source” as well.
And both of ‘these people’ could come up with the idea and topic title "The problem with trusting “unrealiable sources”, while all the time laughably believing, absolutely, that they rely on “reliable sources” only and all of the time.
Finally, a person who thinks critically KNOWS the problem and issue with any indirect or second hand source.
Again and again, you say this to me. You don’t seem to say it much to others, despite its apparent universal applicability. Strange.
It seems that I have misunderstood everything. You, as a bearer of the One and Only Truth, have spoken, and I have failed to listen. My fault, I suppose. I think this brief exchange is over.
In case you have not yet noticed it is NOT me ‘saying’ something to you, it is me ‘asking’ you are question for you to answer and clarify.
I have ‘asked’ more or less the exact same question to others when they say and claim more or less the exact same thing. That is, when people say and claim things like, “The truth can never be known”, “There are some things we can never know”, “There is no actual truth”, “The truth is always subjective”, and “Objectivity can’t be known and can never be known”.
So, you are not the first and probably won’t be the last one I have ‘asked’ this question to. And, the reason WHY no answers ‘this question’ openly and honestly is because of the consequences if they did.
By the way, yes it is absolutely universally applicable.
Why you consider that it ‘is strange’ to you because it ‘seems’ that I do not ‘ask’ it ‘much to others’ some might find very strange also.
Obviously, if ‘you’ have not seen me ‘ask’ similar questions, ‘much to others’, when they make similar claims might just be because you have not yet seen those times when I have done it. Which would NOT be that strange at all, considering the fact that NO one has to have read any let alone all of another’s posts.
If this exchange is over and is what ‘you want’, then okay.
But ‘your’ outrageously stupid conclusion and claim here speak for itself.
What ‘we’ have here is another who believes, absolutely, that if the information does not align with their own already obtained beliefs, then ‘that information’ is from a so-called “unreliable source”.
What “reliable source” could the claim, “Objectivity can’t be known and could never be known”, come from, exactly? ‘The claim’ is an oxymoron and a prime example of a ‘self-contradiction’.
Now, ‘you’ claim, “I stepped outside of my black and silent cave and experienced reality directly”, which gives ‘us’ something to work with.
Obviously, who and/or what the ‘I’ is, exactly, is very, very important here. So, are ‘you’ able to inform ‘us’ of who and/or what this ‘I’ is, exactly, which claims ‘it’ experienced ‘reality’ directly?
And then will this ‘I’ inform ‘us’ of how what ‘it’ calls ‘reality’ was experienced, directly?
When ‘this I’ is able to do this, then ‘we’ ‘see’ if ‘our views’ align with ‘this I’s’ personal and particular view here.
See, if ‘you’ really want to ‘try to’ claim that ‘your own personal view’ ‘sees’ ‘reality’ as it really is, then this is perfectly fine and okay. And, if ‘you’ are not able to ‘see’ things in ‘any other way’, then this is fine and okay as well. But obviously if ‘you’ cannot get agreement and acceptance with ‘you’ and ‘your view’, and ‘you’ do not asked “yourself” WHY? then ‘you’ are literally on your own here.
Well, if you are NOT claiming ‘this’, then I have nothing to question nor challenge ‘you’ on here. As I said and noted before.
People can and do escape ‘reality’ itself through dreams and imagination, but what you were getting at was already understood. By the way, people can better understand and know ‘reality’ itself through dreams and imagination also.
Okay. Again, ‘I’ will only challenge people on what ‘they claim is true’, and I do not challenge people on what ‘they only think is true’, (again, only if I want to). For example, if a persons says, “This is what I saw”, or “My view is this”, but they are not claiming they are true, then there is nothing to challenge.
‘What’ is ‘reality’ itself, exactly?
Here ‘you’ say, “It is reality itself”, but what is ‘it’, exactly? Is ‘it’, for example, the ‘giant blue half-peeled apply’, which ‘you’ spoke about, or is ‘it/reality’ something else, entirely?
Again, ‘you’ ‘saw’ what ‘you saw’, but ‘seeing’ does not mean ‘what you saw’ is ‘reality’ itself?
Were ‘you’ not aware of this fact previously?
Okay.
Lots of people ‘want’ lots of things, but that does not mean that they always get what they want.
But ‘you’ just Admitted that ‘this reality’ is NOT ‘to you’. ‘you’ even expressed that ‘you’ would certainly NOT like to ‘claim it’, as it would be embarrassing ‘to you’.
If ‘you’ would like ‘me’ to examine ‘you’ and ‘your claim’, and ‘disprove your claim’, then ‘you’ will have to present ‘a claim’ that ‘you’ believe is true first, obviously.
But since ‘I’ have been ‘out here’ longer than ‘you’, what makes ‘you’ believe that ‘your view and perspective’ is the absolutely One and only Right and True one, exactly?
Also, and by the way, WHY do ‘you’ want what ‘you’ claim to be ‘clearly true’, ‘to you’, to be disproved ‘to and for you’, exactly?
WHY choose to believe something is true in the first place if you do not want it to be true?
Uh… you’re the one who said you’d been out longer.
Didn’t you?
I was just correcting you. It turns out I’ve been out longer.
Yes, I looked it up. You said: But since ‘I’ have been ‘out here’ longer than ‘you’, what makes ‘you’ believe that ‘your view and perspective’ is the absolutely One and only Right and True one, exactly?
If you don’t think seniority has some bearing, why did you claim to have been out longer?
Chosen to believe? That’s an odd way to put it. It is simply reality. I have no choice to believe or not believe. It just is what is.
If you’ve never escaped your mind and experienced reality directly, I don’t think there’s any way for me to explain it. I’m sorry. I guess you just had to be there.
You seem to talk a lot about this event, could you describe more in-depth how you came to this? For example, is this cave one in your mind? And what exactly does it mean for reality to be this way?
Does the word ‘seniority’ usually refer to something like the ‘age’ of a human being, and not to the duration they have been so-called ‘outside’ for, to you?
If yes, then what does ‘seniority’ have to do with anything here, exactly?
Okay, but considering that I was never in the cave and you were, I am not sure how, exactly, you have been out longer than I have?
Unless, of course, in ‘your story’ here I was in ‘your cave’ with you.
‘you’ have a completely different perception of what ‘seniority’ means than I do, but anyway,
WHY I claimed that I have been out longer than you is to find out and see how ‘you would reply’.
If ‘you’ want ‘me’ to disprove what ‘you’ claim is true here, then I have to ascertain the thinking within that head, first.
I needed to find out if ‘you’ were aware or not where Truth comes from and what ‘Reality’ is based upon, exactly.
