By definition, the one true God is perfectly good and not evil. This is the definition of the world’s monotheistic religions that claim to represent the one true God.
The nature of the one true God is determined by His perfection, His perfect goodness, perfect power, and perfect desire.
What specific evidence of God are you asking for?
“God created” an evil-doer with “perfect” knowledge an evil-doer “creates evil”.
e.g. A parent gives a toddler a loaded gun knowing that toddler will, given enough time, pull the trigger …
Like this negligent parent, “the one true God” is also “perfectly” guilty of setting a chain of events in motion that foreseeably culminates in an “evil”.
Yes. This amounts to hearsay and perhaps even wishful thinking or really wanting things to be that way. Even perhaps a misunderstanding based upon that cursed knowledge of good and evil…
What specific evidence of God are you asking for?
I am not. I am continuing to wonder if those who claim such do have any evidence.
I am satisfied that if their is indeed a creator or creators of this universe, we can work out just by studying what is what, as to the nature of said creator(s). Looking at how life on this planet expresses itself is a great indication of said nature.
I’m not necessarily referencing a certain religion here but I believe God allows the evil things to exist in our world for the sake of warnings of what not to become/associate with along with lessons that help you improve in life. There’s no purpose or meaning to your soul if you don’t overcome obstacles and adversity, if you think about it that’s a torturous empty life so we do subconsciously appreciate the bad in our world.
Here is my full reply to your question from your previous post. “God created man, and man created evil. Isaiah 45:7 is wrong. God is not the creator of evil. God cannot use His perfect power to create evil.”
God created man. Man created an evil doer when he used his power for evil.
God gave the “toddler” knowledge, power, and freedom. The “toddler” used his knowledge, power, and freedom to make a “loaded gun”. This “loaded gun” can be used by the “toddler” for good as well as evil.
God acceded to man’s desire for knowledge, power, and freedom to live the life he chose in the world. God set a chain of events in motion that foreseeably culminates in good as well as evil. I believe that both God and man made the right choice.
They are confused and mistaken.
But they didn’t have the accumulated knowledge we moderns have, so I try to go easy on them.
It is perhaps hearsay and wishful thinking to some people.
What is the misunderstanding based upon that cursed knowledge of good and evil?
The world’s monotheistic religions that claim to represent the one true God do have stories written to support their claim.
I agree.
If they are confused and mistaken that the one true God is perfectly good and not evil, then how do we allay their confusion and mistake with the accumulated knowledge we moderns have?
Well, I don’t think we can allay their confusion. Confusion exists within a human mind, and their minds are long gone.
The best we can do is argue with one another about the nature of God, building our God concepts as we do so.
What we shouldn’t do is assert that God is This Thing or That Thing, as if the question is settled.
That’s how it seems to me.
Everyone have their own beliefs, and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
If we don’t assert that “God is This Thing or That Thing”, then how can we argue with one another about the nature of God and settle the questions raised by our arguments?
What if you meet a stranger on the road, and he has a large family which depends on him, and he believes that jumping off that cliff will do no harm to himself or anyone else?
Or believes that he should raid the neighboring village and steal all the livestock and women, since they have the smallpox and are helpless right now?
You won’t try to change his beliefs?
I will. If I have the time.
I would also ask him for his evidence and reasonings. Maybe he can convince me that I’m wrong, and jumping off cliffs and raiding one’s neighbors are fine behaviors.
Well, that’s the thing–especially in the case of God.
We shouldn’t settle the questions.
God is a word we use to probe the nature of reality. If we know who God is… well, that doesn’t seem a good place to be. It ends—or at least restricts—the chase.
Plus, in my experience, knowing details about God will necessarily lead to confusion.
For I have met many theologians.
Why only “some”?
What is the misunderstanding based upon that cursed knowledge of good and evil?
It was tongue in cheek…from a story about a guy who eats some fruit which gave him the ability to know good and evil - but what it actually did was cloud his ability to know either and he thought being naked was evil…
That aside, humans have been confused about morality and my question asks how we can work out any creators nature based upon faulty moral assumptions.
The world’s monotheistic religions that claim to represent the one true God do have stories written to support their claim.
Sure they do. Why would we expect it would not be the case?
Historically, victors of war also have their stories to show why they are the good guys…
“It is not clear why humans have never appreciated the Evil or Malevolent God”
oh yeh,… our lord god almighty…he’s bad alright…I mean…you’re not telling me you have never woken up without a hangover???
thats god talking…hes telling you to either
If you see that a person is about to harm himself or anyone else, then you must intervene to stop the harm.
What questions shouldn’t we settle in the case of God?
Knowing what details about God will necessarily lead to confusion?
About what morality have humans been confused?
Based upon what faulty moral assumptions impedes us from working out any creator’s nature?
The good guys should be judged not only by their good stories, but also by their good actions.
Well, I am not going to point out the obvious. If you think my statement is untrue, then it is unlikely we will reach any agreement.
Based upon what faulty moral assumptions impedes us from working out any creator’s nature?
Moral assumptions themselves. What is good or evil about nature?
The good guys should be judged not only by their good stories, but also by their good actions.
Many of the actions are only reported as stories.
It’s a slippery slope.
What if you see that your culture is fragmenting into hostile tribes, and you’ve read enough history to have a good idea how that usually ends?
You might go out and try to change opinions about rigidity of belief, preaching that we should resist settling on certain answers.
The classic one is omnipotence. The theologian who claims that God is omnipotent must wrestle with such nonsense as: Can God create a rock too big for Him to pick up?
So I think it is better not to know that God is omnipotent.
If we know that God loves us humans and that God takes an active role in human life, then we must struggle with the problem of suffering.
If we know that God lives on Mount Olympus and is real, then we must explain why we can’t find Him on Mount Olympus.
Stuff like that.
Think of all the trouble which has come to the human mind by a literal reading of the creation story. I have debated with creationists and can report much confusion. Awhile back, one of them told me that the geologic column does not show life moving from the simple to the complex.
He knew too much about God, I think.
I can’t say that your statement is untrue because I don’t understand it. You will have to point out the obvious to me.
Which moral assumptions?
What nature are you referring to? The nature of the natural world or the nature of God?
If so, then the good guys should be judged by the stories of their good actions.
Would you try to change opinions about the rigidity of belief and resist settling on certain answers if the belief and answers are from you or your tribe?
In post 159 of this thread, I explained to “180Proof” why I believe that God is not all powerful. He is perfectly powerful, which means that He cannot use His perfect power for evil, and He cannot use His perfect power to create perfection.
In post 135 of this thread, I explained to “MoK” why I believe there is suffering in the world and why God is not punishing us with suffering.
You may think that the guy you debated with knew too much about God, but he does not know too much about the natural sciences.
The biblical take on suffering is most poignantly exemplified by the story of Job. Job is mystified by the sudden calamities he experiences. His friends tell him it could be punishment for sins. Job pleads his case with God, who it seems was testing Job, motivated to do so by al-Shaitan. God’s voice comes from the whirlwind reminding Job who calls the shots - were you there when I created the world?, a question that Job, a pious, humble man can’t answer. God ultimately rectifies the situation, doubling the number of Job’s camels, etc.