On the nature of God

Sorry, it was my fault. Let’s consider them as an adjective.

No—that is the direct implication of the definition you keep insisting on.

No—this is a false dichotomy.

That is not what the term has historically meant in Christian theology, and it is not what the Bible teaches.

Miracles (walking on water, turning water into wine, etc.) do not contradict God’s nature—they are fully consistent with it.

The Bible is explicit that there are things that are impossible for God precisely because of who He is:

“…it is impossible for God to lie…” (Hebrews 6:18 ESV)

It does not say “unless it is necessary.” It says it is impossible.

True omnipotence is the power to do everything that is logically possible and consistent with God’s nature. It does not include the ability to cease being God.

I won’t be replying to any more claims that I’ve clearly shown to be false.

Being God is being omnipotent. Being omnipotent means being able to do anything including performing miracles, and whatever God feels or decides as necessary. Not being able to do so would be ceasing to be God.

I have been only replying from best of my own reasoning, to the points you have raised and asked. So it is up to you.

I will try and answer, although I can’t claim to know an answer. My own convictions are more Buddhist than Christian, and in the Buddhist world, suffering is inherent to existence, it is not imposed on the world by God or by any external agent.

But at the same time I come from a Christian cultural background, and I don’t know if your ‘charges against God’ would be warranted from within that perspective. In our culture, we expect the best from our life on Earth, so we want to do everything possible to reduce suffering and injustice, which is perfectly admirable. But Christians believe that life on earth is not their final destination. I don’t think there is a promise in the Bible that life on earth will ever be free of suffering, is there? Although Christianity has traditionally always done a great deal to ameliorate suffering. Hospitals and Western medicine were all initiated by Christians.

So I question holding God to human expectations of what life ought to be. The challenge seems to assume God is something like a powerful manager with obligations to meet our standards of fairness — but that’s not the God the faithful actually believe in. The gap between Creator and creation in classical theology is of a different order than any human relationship of power and responsibility. Whether or not that theology is true is another question — but the argument as stated may be aimed at a target that isn’t really there, kind of a ‘straw God’ argument, if you don’t mind me saying.

I did write an essay on this topic recently which can be found here if you’re interested.

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I think God had a purpose in all of this, He had desire from the beggining. Jesus may not mean much to you & to be honest, i question it myself. But this Father Son relationship holds some value in the sense that we as a society perpetuate in that way. We move forward..that way. Its not a mystery.

But how can you make an assessment of this unless you understand reality as God sees it? An assessment like this is surely only possible from a human perspective, in which case it is missing vital information. Or it can be made from a position of fully understanding reality and God’s nature.

I don’t think I follow your point.

If we believe we can fully grasp why God has done things in this way,we lose the idea of God..in other words He should be the God that fits our sphere & our limitations. To be complete, i wouldn’t want a God I could put in a box or control. If Hes not bigger than me..why would i want Him as God?

I guess that’s just a repackaged and slightly more detailed form of the old, “God moves in mysterious ways”, isn’t it? One of the problems is that if we are never to understand God then he can do anything at all and we have no capacity to know good from evil.

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I don’t think that there is a valid answer to the problem of suffering, assuming that God is Benevolent. Just accept that God is Benevolent and Malevolent, and all logical problems regarding the problems of good and evil are solved.

Reducing the injustice is alright. But to be honest, I am unsure that reducing suffering in a world created by a God who is Malevolent is a good idea. What if we get punished eternally for doing so! What if we get punished eternally for doing good only? I am a simple human being. I am created very weak. God, on the other hand, is all-powerful, so sometimes I am dealing with dilemmas about what is the best decision in a situation, considering that God is both Malevolent and Benevolent!

I am not saying that at all. I am just concluding something about the nature of God here.

Thank you very much for the link. I will read it when I have time.

We are certain about what Good and Evil are. Are you saying that God has a different understanding of Good and Evil? I don’t think that is the case. When I say I cannot see the reality as God sees it, I mean I don’t have God’s knowledge, so I cannot be sure about many things. But I certainly say something that I am sure about, like what Good and Evil are, Good and Evil exist, and God’s nature.

This is an argument for the nature of God, and it is not an assessment.

On what evidentiary grounds do you assume the universe – any aspect of reality – was “created” in the first place?

It seems to me that all we can validly infer from a “created universe”, iff this is the case, is that “the nature of god” is … to create universes (i.e. mere omnipotence).

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This is a thread on the nature of God, not about whether the universe is created or not. By this I mean that, granting that the universe is created by God, then we can say that God is Malevolent and Benevolent, given the fact that Good and Evil exist.

We can say more. God is certainly Omniscient as well. That follows from the fact that the universe is lawful, so it must be designed. Knowledge is required for the design. Therefore, God has knowledge. God is Omni since otherwise another entity would be Omni, hence God is Omniscient as well. I already discussed God being Malevolent and Benevolent in the OP.

Nonsense. Is god growing and decaying as well because growth and decay exist? :roll_eyes:

Circular reasoning.

This is discussed in the OP.

It is not circular at all.

The problem with this is that Good and Evil are judgements relative to the needs/wants of people in very specific transient contexts.

A bountiful feast is good for those whose lives are sustained by it but bad for those whose lives are taken away or diminished by it.

A material analysis of the full systemic effects of an action as good or bad can make us reevaluate our judgement as to what is good or evil. We often lack the knowledge of, or do not care to know, the full consequence of actions we might judge to be good or at least neutral/permissible.

If evil can arise from pure ignorance, what/who conditions that ignorance in a universe where an all powerful God desires a particular outcome? Why is there inequity in the distribution of self-awareness, knowledge of and capacity for good and evil?

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I am not talking about what people prefer or want to do, whether Good or Evil. I am talking about things, whether our wants, emotions, or acts, in reality can be divided into two main categories, namely Good and Evil.

We all know what are Evil and Good things are. Love is Good, hate is Evil, generosity is Good, greed is Evil,… We should, however, care for our actions since each comes with a consequence as well.

I don’t think that evil is the result of ignorance. We love certain things and hate other things, and people are different in what they hate and love. That is completely natural.

That is a good question, but I don’t understand its relevance to the discussion.

“The One True God” is considered to be perfect, perfect goodness, perfect power, and perfect desire.

Humans have worshiped evil or malevolent gods as well as benevolent gods.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of God. God is not omnipotent, not all powerful. God is perfectly powerful. Which mean that God cannot use His perfect power for evil or use His perfect power to create perfection.

“And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good.” Not perfect. God’s good creations can sometime become bad. Adam and Eve were created to be good, but their desire for knowledge, power, and freedom led mankind to evil.

A god who is both benevolent and malevolent would be the same as a man, only more powerful. He is not the “One True God”.

What do you mean by perfect here?

Are you saying that people were practicing killing humans, raping, lying, torturing, …?

God has to be Omni, otherwise another Entity is Omni, and therefore S/He is God.

I am not interested in discussing any religious text here. I have another thread on “Who is responsible for the original sin?” We can discuss the origin of sin there if you are interested.

And by your definition, the true God is Benevolent. How do you deal with the problem of Evil?

Why are you “granting that the universe is created by God”?