On generic failures found in arguments for the existence of god

Arguments of one sort or another, for the existence of God, of one sort or another, are a commonplace. There are common errors to be found in them that might be worth putting in one place. We might also develop a fairly consistent critical position concerning those arguments. Perhaps we might be able to simply refer “new” arguments for divine actuality to this thread…

So here’s a list.

General logical objections

  • Existence is not a property that can simply be added to a concept or individual by inference; as Kant pointed out, saying something exists is not adding to the concept. See Of the Impossibility of an Ontological Proof
  • Existence as Quantification. More recently this point was clarified in showing how existence is captured by the quantifier, not by a first-level predicate of objects — “Fs exist” is ∃x(Fx), not Fa ∧ Ea. In standard first order logic existence cannot be expressed as a predicate of individuals, and so no valid formal argument can have “x exists” as its conclusion.
  • In those logics that allow predication of existence, such as free logic, any argument that claims to show that something exists has the assumption of existence hidden in its premises. The things that exist are stipulated in the domain, so that expressions of the form ∀x(A→E!x) cannot be derived in Free Logic.
  • Always ask: Where, exactly, does the argument acquire its existential commitment?

Problems with the nature of proof

  • The burden of proof: in the absence of evidence, there’s no reason to assert God exists, but also no argument needed to assert he doesn’t. Mere agnosticism will not do, though, since anyone claiming God’s existence is even possible owes an account of a coherent, consistent concept of God. In the absence of such a coherent account, atheism seems the reasonable conclusion.
  • The arguments are post hoc, not evangelical — they rarely actually convince anyone, failing if their job is persuading nonbelievers. If these were successful, there would be far more theist philosophers. Belief precedes and outlives the arguments, so while believers may treat the arguments as confirmation, nonbelievers see them as faulty, and either way, the arguments are post hoc to the belief. At best, arguments might provide a way for theists to understand the nature of their God but won’t convince all who give them due consideration.
  • Equivocation. Starting with some minimalist notion of God and then switching to something more substantial, e.g. from “God just is the immaterial cause of material existence” to “God is eternal and anyone who doesn’t believe in Him is a corrupt infidel”.
  • Such arguments also run into the problem of divine simplicity contradicting the multiplicity of attributes (will, intellect, etc.) ascribed to God; if one begins with a contradiction, anything is provable. For example, what shows that the source of all movement is the source of what is good, and moreover, how does it remain simple? This leads to questions of the coherence of the very notion of God.

Ontological arguments

  • Ontological arguments structurally beg the question. The presumption that “the greatest thing” is real gets smuggled into a premise, typically in the move from “conceivable” to “real”. The argument becomes “God exists therefore God exists.”
  • Gaunilo’s parody of the perfect island still carries weight against certain ontological arguments. If the logic works for God, it works for any absurd concept, undermining the argument’s validity.
  • Modal/necessity arguments face the dilemma that S5’s ◊□p→□p buys its conclusion at the cost of the possible/necessary distinction itself. They risk modal collapse. The theologians’ response that “logic doesn’t apply to God” is just special pleading.
  • The Missing Explanation reply stops things a step earlier, asking why we might accept the premise ◊□p at all. The inference from possible necessary existence to necessary existence may be valid, but the possibility of such an existent remains an unaccounted-for premise; why should we accept that there might be an necessary individual at all? Nothing in modal logic suggests that some individual is in every possible world.
  • The classic version was presented by St Anselm of Canterbury, who concluded that “God must exist in reality”. The error in the argument is that the sentence “God must exist in reality”, rather than refer to something that exists outside language, in fact refers to language itself. Donald Davidson promoted the Principle of Charity, whereby we must assume that the speaker’s beliefs are consistent and that they are logically responding to their environment. A speaker’s immediate environment is the language being used by the community of which they are a part. The sentence “God must exist in reality” is true, not because God must exist in reality, but because each word within the sentence satisfies in the syntactic rather than semantic sense the sentence, and each sentence satisfies also in the syntactic rather than semantic sense the linguistic environment within which the speaker lives.
  • Another error in the ontological argument that “God must exist in reality” Is that the sentence refers to itself rather than something outside the sentence. The sentence “God must exist in reality” does exist in reality as physical text on the computer screen. So, in this sense, the “God” within the sentence “God must exist in reality” does exist in reality.

Cosmological arguments

  • Cosmological arguments are viciously simple and merely name a feeling of perplexity. Reduced to its bones they consist in “Here is a series - That series has some prime item on which it is based - And this we call God”. This is unconvincing - why must we call it God? Aquinas’s final move, “this we all call God,” names the mystery that things exist; it doesn’t show that God exists.
  • Special pleading as to the terminus of the causal chain. Typically found in the insistence on the “Principle” that everything has a cause, only to reject this very principle in the case of God.
  • Quantifier-shift fallacy (∀x∃y Cyx ≠ ∃y∀x Cyx); commonly seen as “everything that exists has a cause, hence there exists something that causes everything”.
  • Many versions rely on a shaky theory of causation. Arguments that use causation often smuggle in simplistic Aristotelian mechanics or inconsistent applications of causal determinism. Causal Determinism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Teleological arguments

  • Teleological arguments face the problem that “purpose” is imputed by the observer rather than discovered independently in nature. One can be amazed by the universe’s intricacy without inferring a designer.

Fine-tuning

  • Fine-tuning arguments attempt to infer a probability from a single data point. In addition, any universe capable of being observed will necessarily have constants compatible with observers. So finding ourselves in such a universe is not evidence of design, only evidence that we couldn’t exist to notice the alternative. Such arguments don’t get a probability assignment at all without some arbitrary and unmotivated choice of measure.

Moral arguments

  • The idea is that there could only be objective moral values if god exists. The obvious reply: there are no objective moral values. And even if there were, why they require a god remains unexplained.
  • Euthyphro: Does God command something because it is good, or is it good because God commands it?
  • Choosing in moral circumstances does not seem to involve following some revelation. Further, if God’s commands constitute moral obligation, then whatever God genuinely commands becomes obligatory, even if it is immoral - slavery, genocide, misogyny, have all at some stage been claimed to be god’s will. In the end, one has no choice but to decide such issues for oneself, anyway, and god drops out of the calculus.

Others

  • Transcendent Arguments. God is not a being amongst other beings, but somehow the transcendent source of and ground for being itself. This removes God from the quantification given in most of the arguments. This position is self-undermining in that saying that God is the source of being is itself making the sort of ontic claim that is being rejected. The by now familiar problem of talking about that about which we claim we cannot talk. (Response to @Wayfarer below)

  • Argument from miracles. Suspension of natural law has been the stock in trade, the sure clincher, for the divine. Responses have been downright denial - there’s no hard evidence for miracles, only hearsay - to responses like, “I’ll give you all the miracles you want, but you’ll still be left exactly where you are now. Holding an empty sack.” Hume Texts Online

  • Argument from personal religious experiences. The stoics held that a truth must be experienced in the Humean sense (vivid, lively, forceful) and religious experiences are that. But if the phantasia katalēptikē matched some real-world object one might expect some convergence across religious doctrine around the world, yet instead we have cultural divergence; also we have amongst us those who have katalēptikē for alien abduction and Marian apparitions. Parsimony suggests a cultural origins. Logically, what can be believed on account of a private experience can be disbelieved on the same grounds. It is precisely unreasonable to expect others to be swayed by my private experience, and my interpretation of it. This of course does not demonstrate that my private experience, and interpretation, are wrong. It only argues against private experience as a persuasive premise in an argument made to others. (@jay)

  • Pascal’s wager. If you believe and you’re wrong, not much of an issue but if you don’t believe and you’re wrong it’s an issue. The string of failures here is long, including one recognised by Pascal, that we don’t believe on demand. Introducing infinite priors into probabilities effectively negates any prior, and so any reason for choosing one religion over another. The argument does not tell us which god, amongst the many who promise damnation or salvation.

  • The God of the Gaps. This involves a merely rhetorical strategy: here is a gap; invoke god to explain the gap; when science provides another explanation, move on to the next gap. Such an approach is methodologically problematic — again, an explanation that explains anything explains nothing. In order to function, an explanation must rule some things out. The God of the gaps has no predictive content, no failure conditions; it doesn’t answer the gap, it papers over it.

Problems of divine coherence

  • Omnipotence and moral perfection. A perfectly powerful being can do anything, including evil. A perfectly good being can do no evil. So how is God both omnipotent and good?
  • Foreknowledge and intervention If God knows the future with certainty, that future is fixed, and God can’t act to change it. So either foreknowledge is incomplete, or God’s power to intervene is illusory.
  • Perfect and immutable vs. personal and responsive. A being that is perfect lacks nothing and needs no change; indeed any change would be either toward greater perfection, so it wasn’t perfect before, or away from it, and so he wasn’t perfect. A being that answers prayers, becomes incarnate, gets angry, responds to human action, is not an immutable being.

Of course, that there are problems with these proofs does not show that God does not exist. These arguments are a neat case study of philosophy not done well. There are answers to each and all, of course, and these are a beginning, or a continuation, not an end, to our enquiry.

Please, feel free to add to my list. This post is a Wiki. This is just an outline, a beginning, and no doubt will attract ongoing attention. You can add to and edit the points above, but please keep the discussion to the subsequent posts.

There are issues with the markup, it seems the bullets don’t like headings in their scope. If someone has a solution…

If you have an argument that avoids all these problems, please start your own thread.

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To start with, no argumentation will suffice for the willingness or openess to the possibility of such a Being. Aquinas, like him or loath him, was first to acknowledge that without faith, reason could never reach revealation. Analogous understandings are found in other religious traditions. The prophets and divine sages represent a radical break from the normal order of things, in which the worldly mind is ensared.

Very well then, you might answer, but isn’t religious faith simply belief without evidence? Isn’t it just clinging to a fond hope? To which the response is, what would count as evidence? I’m sure that the faithful would say that the existence of the Cosmos is evidence, so too the regularities and concordances which constitute what we understand as scientific laws (which is the argument from natural theology). As many have observed, A N Whitehead and Paul Davies among them, it’s a truism that scientists have faith in the reliability of natural law, without which neither discovery nor prediction could be made (Davies, Taking Science on Faith.) But at the end of all that, you can of course choose not to believe it.

As far as the ‘coherent concept of God’ is concerned, theology has long understood that the sense in which God is real could not be the same sense in which other things are real. This goes right back to Plotinus.

what passes for the most truly existent is most truly non-existent—the thing of extension least real of all—while this unseen First is the source and principle of Being and sovreign over Reality.

Hence the problem begins with the conception of God being presupposed. These objections treat God as though he were a particular entity whose existence might be added to the inventory of things that exist, presumably the kind of super-being that Richard Dawkins and others of his ilk have in mind. But that is not the God of classical theism. Plotinus already distinguished the First from the realm of ordinary existents; and the same distinction runs through Augustine and Aquinas.

David Bentley Hart makes the point in contemporary terms in The Experience of God: God is not one being among others, but the transcendent source and ground of being itself. As Bishop Pierre Whalon put it:

Existence requires existing among other existents, a fundamental dependency of relation. If God also exists, then God would be just another fact of the universe, relative to other existents and included in that fundamental dependency of relation.

In other words, God could not be God. He would be at best some sort of super-alien, flitting about the creation flashing super powers, seemingly irrationally. God does not Exist

So what is transcendent to existence is not ‘something that exists’, and the kind of ‘evidence’ being demanded presupposes that God belongs to the same order of reality as the things whose existence we ordinarily establish by evidence. So the possibility of considering the question on the terms understood by classical theism has already been foreclosed.

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As long as we acknowledge the absence of disproof of God we should be ok. Christians call themselves believers, not knowers. Most atheists admit to be agnostic atheists or weak atheists (non-believers).

The best arguments are probabilistic but we know improbable \cancel {\implies} \text{false}

It must be fairly easy being an atheist. Science has limits to what it can answer. (It can’t explain what there was before the big bang so it relies on conjecture)

Not that religion does any better it simply states that god is eternal…amongst other stuff.

I believe in a higher power than myself. God if you like … I don’t need him, I simply believe shaped by my own personal experience which cannot be verified nor is it empirical. I do not believe to gain favour… I don’t think god works that way anyway. My view of god is self formed with a bit of influence from Christian scripture.

@banno Did you ever believe in God and was your disbelief based on reason?

I suspect my position is best described as ignosticism as I have yet to experience a coherent account of theism. So I don’t see significant merit in the arguments (many of which I rehashed a lot when I was a zealous atheist 25 years ago). I’m now an enervated atheist. Not sure how we can argue this one out without an intelligible account of what “God” means. I’ve read, amongst others Hart, Tillich, Spong, (small amounts of Aquinas), Merton, Bill Craig, C.S. Lewis, Kierkegaard, Rowan Williams. I can only imagine that an apophatic faith works better for me than an intricately reasoned one. As I’ve sometimes said, faith seems a lot like sexual preference. You can’t help who you’re attracted to.

By the way. I read a well-known prayer by Thomas Merton recently which I liked the tone of. It started:

“My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so…

Kind of like the lack of smug certainty and hubris in this version of Christianity.

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One thing I noticed with apologetics, is that every argument eventually boils down to either special pleading or the abandonment of all reasoning.

Because, frankly, they are espousing a position that can’t be supported logically. So the need is to either say logic is not allowed, or logic is not allowed for this one case.

Now, proofs of god are not the same thing as apologetics. So I’d have to have a think if the same is true in this context.
The first cause argument is clearly on the special pleading side, others like fine-tuning…there’s more to it than that.

I’d say regardless of whether the flaws of the proofs of god can be boiled down to a minimal set, it doesn’t mean that that minimal set would be useful rhetorically.

Is there an increase in influx of people arguing for the existence of God? Reports suggest many young people have become more religious and we have a push by the evangelist christian extremists in the US into politics, so I wonder, are we seeing more and more repeated faulty arguments assaulting online spaces like this forum?

I also find it interesting that the framing seems to be Christianity. Why are Christian theologists or believers more incline to try and prove the existence of God through reasoning? Is it because Christianity became the first true large scale religious victim to the enlightenment? Other religions seem less occupied with trying to rationally prove the existence of their God or Gods, and in turn, almost act more secular than how a nation like the US behaves today; a nation closer related to that of Islamic fundamentalist regimes than secular western societies.

Sorry but I have to question both premises:

Have they? There was a survey from here in the UK that claimed a big increase in church attendence. It got a lot of play in the media, and even parliament.
Then it got retracted due to poor data collection methods.

The overall data therefore remains that the long decline continues, and honestly people should have been more skeptical of the YouGov report – anyone who’s been near a church recently knows services are poorly-attended and many churches only open their doors for Sunday service.

I’ll add I am not saying this as some victory. I like Britain’s churches and although I am atheist now, it is still sad to see many of them empty, and many more getting converted into other functions.

Again, are they? I listen to a few theological debate shows, and the proportion of callers roughly aligns with the proportion of Christians, Muslims and other faiths in the country IME. Maybe one or two faiths like Hinduism are under-represented but regardless I don’t think Christianity is special in having arguments for God; lots of religions engage in that.

Didn’t know that about the UK, but it’s been reported in more nations that young people at least seek to the spiritual more than before. However, if such reports are also found everywhere to be false, then I would conclude this to be the works of intention, rather than mistakes. Maybe religious groups operating to try and manifest numbers in desperation? :man_shrugging:

But it may prove some point as well, if there’s a larger influx of people online dealing with faulty arguments about God, then why wouldn’t that be part of a dedicated intentional attempt to flood the internet with religious writing?

We have lots of buildings and architecture from historical religions not even in practice anymore, and they’re cared for with renovation and love. I don’t think we need religion to appreciate the works of art that religion has produced. I don’t devalue the work of Michelangelo because I’m an atheist and I would fight to have it saved for future generations.

What people need are places for contemplation, either for themselves or as a collective. I don’t know why society has never figured to build places for all people to be welcome to meditate on life. Some say that Churches are such places that welcome all, but I really don’t want to have Christian propaganda unintentionally shoved in my face whenever I enter a Church.

It’s the old missionary tactics; find the ones who are in need of existential help, then convert them. I don’t even think many of the priests and professional practitioners in these buildings even understand that’s what they’re doing.

So I would love for society to build existential buildings; places where people can meditate on life, meet philosophy and, if they choose, religion. But a place that do not align with a definitive religion or perspective, but only that of the collective need for existential questions and searches.

That we do not have such a building as an alternative to religion is sloppy and irresponsible by society. Instead, people who don’t want to adopt to a specific religion has to figure things out by themselves, by their own willpower. Not all are equipped to do that.

I might have needed to frame that as more of a question than a statement. But it would be logical I think. Christianity is eroding away faster than Islam because the Christian nations in the world have largely adopted a secular state, a separation of church and state. If the state operates together with religion, it’s much harder to even question religion rationally, which means there’s no need to have to prove the existence of God as it’s generally accepted as part of the society you live in.

I am sometimes touched by this idea that Christians have a simple faith in god.

Apparently all it requires is that faith. God will be my lord amd shepherd.

Why then so much baggage: free will, dualism, first cause, intelligent design, objective truth, divine command.

This isn’t a simple case of believing in him. This is “the magic show”

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I can’t say i speak for all Christians or believers as my faith is quite personal in that I simply discard most of the scripture or dogma associated with systematic religion. All I do have is a belief in a higher power in the universe so when it comes to that I do believe that such a higher power does exist mostly through personal experience rather than philosophical argument.

It could be that god is inside us, and my externalising this belief in a higher power means remaining humble regarding my capacities as a human being. I like humility it’s very Christian like and makes one receptive to change, learning and instruction.

If I gave myself credit for my good works I fear it would lead me astray so I instead of being proud am grateful.

In the last few years my faith has perhaps weakened but it will never be eliminated completely thus most good principles such as love (charity), prudence, justice fortitude etc remain instilled in me.

I may sometimes fall short of such virtues but they guide and give me something to strive for.

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:100:

And I generalize from “God” to the supernatural thereby also concluding naturalism (à la Spinoza).

Indeed, only nonexistence (unreality) “transcends existence” (reality); thus, the cataphatic god of classical theism is conceptually incoherent (or merely idolatrous). However, Abrahamic, Hindu, Greco-Roman, Egyptian … theisms consist of claims which imply evidence that, of course, in every instance is lacking (re: burden of proof) as Banno points out.

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Why can’t the concept of god remain vague and allow the agnostic position. Not sure god can be confined to a definition, this is kinda lame as it rules out spirituality if I may say so.

You should check out apophatic theology, you might find it engaging.

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I knew a guy who tried and tried to remove himself from the church rolls where he was baptized.

A fierce atheist, but they had him down as a good Baptist and just wouldn’t let go.

I’ve added an item in reply. Removing God from rational discourse should of course result in silence, but rarely does.

Is your argument that if god is coherent then he must exist? Then the various arguments for his incoherence demonstrate that he doesn’t exist. IS that what you want?

I added an item on fine tuning.

The claim is that those who suppose that some individual exists at least owe a consistent account of what it is that exists. Agnosticism must maintain that a coherent notion of God is at least possible.

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A reminder that the OP is a Wiki. Add your own point, or edit the existing ones. It will be interesting to see the result.