# Morton's fork, fallacious/not?
**URL:** https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609
**Category:** Logic & Philosophy of Mathematics
**Tags:** wiki
**Created:** [August 18, 2026, 10:22pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609 "2026-08-18T22:22:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@WeSee](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WeSee)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2026, 9:19pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/21 "2026-08-20T21:19:19Z")
Evidently you still fail to understand. Put it all together.
> [@WeSee](#):
>
> From what I could gather the fork was in regards to a benevolence tax which only applied to the wealthiest citizens.
>
> From wiki
>
> > A benevolence, also called a loving contribution, voluntary contribution or free gift, was a type of tax imposed by several English monarchs from the 15th to the 17th century. Although taken under the guise of a charitable contribution to the King, the money was in fact extorted from the king’s subjects. Commissioners or letters were sent from town to town, detailing the financial need of the king and **asking that the town’s wealthiest pay.** The requested could not refuse to give, unless they denied the king’s need or professed their own poverty, a “doubtless difficult, if not virtually impossible” task
>
> **Put in that context, the fork was to get the wealthy who cried poor to pay.**
>
> Another lesson of the importance of context.
quote="WeSee, post:19, topic:2609, full:true"
Not sure you understood the point. **The benevolence tax was not applied to all citizens, only the wealthiest. As such, it wasn’t levied against the poor.**
/quote
Pay particular attention to the words in bold.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2026, 9:40pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/22 "2026-08-20T21:40:55Z")
Yes, I understand the benevolence tax was imposed on the rich by the monarch. It’s like an extortion racket the mafia are known for: “We’re worried about your business. Fires can start unexpectedly …”
You’re giving me a historical fact, perhaps embellished. I don’t know.
Morton’s fork is a dilemma, as Morton had an economic goal in mind. It’s conclusion is that poor/rich, taxes will be collected.
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### Author:  [@WeSee](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WeSee)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2026, 9:44pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/23 "2026-08-20T21:44:22Z")
Once again:
The benevolence tax was not applied to all citizens, only the wealthiest. As such, it wasn’t levied against the poor.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2026, 9:50pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/24 "2026-08-20T21:50:05Z")
> “As Lord Chancellor to His Majesty King Henry VII, my mandate is simple: fill the Crown’s coffers, and let no tax-evader escape my logic.
> If I observe a subject living in lavish luxury, spending grandly on fine food and apparel, the conclusion is self-evident—he possesses wealth in abundance and can easily afford a generous contribution to the King.
> If, however, a subject lives frugally, hiding away in modest dress and simple habits, it is equally clear he must be saving a great fortune in secret—and therefore can afford just as generous a contribution.
> Prudent or prodigal, it matters not. Either prong catches the fish.” ~ Cardinal John Morton
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### Author:  [@WeSee](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WeSee)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2026, 10:03pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/25 "2026-08-20T22:03:41Z")
The benevolence tax was not levied against all citizens, only the wealthiest.
As such, the “tax evaders” Morton was referring to were the wealthy who cried poor. He wasn’t referring to those who were actually poor.
Have you failed to consider that England at that time was organized into a rigid social hierarchy divided into distinct classes? Those from the lower classes would not have been subject to the benevolence tax.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2026, 11:20pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/26 "2026-08-20T23:20:00Z")
Got it!
I did err in not reading the wiki article properly or the page was edited after I’d last read it, 3 - 4 years ago. The real story could be far more interesting if the snapshot we have gives any indication.
However it’s still a dilemma, for rich folk. Whether they’re the lavish type or the frugal type they have to cough up the money.
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### Author:  [@WeSee](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/WeSee)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2026, 12:38am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/27 "2026-08-21T00:38:59Z")
Dilemma doesn’t really seem to fit.
I view it simply as a wry way of saying we know you have wealth regardless of the cover you put on the book. Just fork it over. Pun intended.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2026, 8:23pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/28 "2026-08-21T20:23:33Z")
1. You’re either frugal or lavish (premise)
2. If you’re frugal then you pay taxes (premise)
3. If you’re lavish then you pay taxes (premise)
4. You pay taxes or you pay taxes (1, 2, 3 CD)
5. You pay taxes (4 Taut)
This is the problem
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2026, 4:13am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/29 "2026-08-23T04:13:59Z")
Is this paradox unsolvable?
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 12:08am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/30 "2026-08-25T00:08:35Z")
@BestGuessYet What do you think? Does Morton make a good argument or no?
I’ll explain the problem for convenience. Morton wants the rich to pay taxes. The rich are luxuriously clothed or are “modest or dressed in simple habits”. Whatever is the case they have to pay taxes. It’s similar to the question you pose in your thread, on the value of doubt.
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### Author:  [@BestGuessYet](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/BestGuessYet)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 12:37am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/31 "2026-08-25T00:37:24Z")
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> @BestGuessYet What do you think? Does Morton make a good argument or no?
You’re saying I need to read a Wiki article called Morton’s Fork?
I can do that when I get a minute.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 1:22am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/32 "2026-08-25T01:22:15Z")
I made it more convenient by sketching the argument 👇
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> I’ll explain the problem for convenience. Morton wants the rich to pay taxes. The rich are luxuriously clothed or are “modest or dressed in simple habits”. Whatever is the case they have to pay taxes. It’s similar to the question you pose in your thread, on the value of doubt.
What do you think?
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 8:53am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/33 "2026-08-25T08:53:40Z")
@BestGuessYet I take the lack of response to mean unsolvable.
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### Author:  [@BestGuessYet](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/BestGuessYet)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 2:26pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/34 "2026-08-25T14:26:45Z")
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> What do you think?
I think that if you want me to answer a question, you must first ask me a question.
What is the question?
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### Author:  [@BestGuessYet](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/BestGuessYet)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 2:27pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/35 "2026-08-25T14:27:40Z")
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> @BestGuessYet I take the lack of response to mean unsolvable.
Yes.
A statement cannot be solved.
There must be a question–as in the question I posted.
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### Author:  [@BestGuessYet](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/BestGuessYet)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 2:31pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/36 "2026-08-25T14:31:28Z")
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> @BestGuessYet I take the lack of response to mean unsolvable.
Anyway, the answer is Kentucky.
Prove me wrong.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 3:34pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/37 "2026-08-25T15:34:55Z")
The question? I thought it was clear. Many have given answers, good ones.
Is Morton’s fork good? I guess that’s the question. A poster has critiqued the fork by the mentioning the premise of 2 contradictory propositions is flawed. Isn’t this exactly like your question?
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### Author:  [@BestGuessYet](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/BestGuessYet)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/38 "2026-08-25T15:46:43Z")
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> Is Morton’s fork good? I guess that’s the question. A poster has critiqued the fork by the mentioning the premise of 2 contradictory propositions is flawed. Isn’t this exactly like your question?
You summarized it for me as this:
_I’ll explain the problem for convenience. Morton wants the rich to pay taxes. The rich are luxuriously clothed or are “modest or dressed in simple habits”. Whatever is the case they have to pay taxes. It’s similar to the question you pose in your thread, on the value of doubt._
Now you ask me if a fork is good.
What fork? What is the question?
No, I see no similarity between this and the question I asked. This is a statement about Morton wanting the rich to pay taxes. My question had a question mark and asked a very specific question.
So, yeah, I’m lost. I can’t find the question mark.
Are you asking me if the rich should pay different taxes depending on how they’re dressed? Or something?
> [@Scorpion](#):
>
> The question? I thought it was clear. Many have given answers, good ones.
Yes, and that has seemed odd to me.
Because I have seen no question to be answered.
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### Author:  [@Scorpion](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Scorpion)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 3:56pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/39 "2026-08-25T15:56:27Z")
A good fork is good reasoning. Is the reasoning good? The premise is based on the way a person lives - luxuriously or frugally - and the conclusion is one has to pay taxes.
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### Author:  [@BestGuessYet](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/BestGuessYet)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/mortons-fork-fallacious-not/2609/40 "2026-08-25T16:27:20Z")
Well, I haven’t seen the reasoning, and you apparently will not tell me what it is.
I suppose I will have to read the Wiki article.
From what you’ve given me so far, though, I would say that the living style of the rich has little or nothing to do with how they will be taxed.
Just my opinion, of course.
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