Don’t that sum up the general attitude. Brings me back to my early morning thoughts about this discussion.
In a weird way it reminded of what I watched unfold in America. You see, I was a baby when we immigrated, my parents were very proud of America and what we achieved. As my mom shared poignant chapters of her teenaged years as a war torn refuge running from the bombs.
For the first ten years we lived a few doors down from what would be our precinct’s official Polling Place for US elections. So between my mother’s praise and teaching, and civics lessons(which are no longer given to students), I got to grow up watching that sacred mysterious ritual unfold and it always started with the flag being brought outside for display and identification. The sense of pride always stayed with me.
Meaning I grew up feeling deeply moved by democracy’s sacred processes. I’d listen to my parents a they kept up on the news and discussed matters between themselves and neighbors.
I felt proud of it. Imagine my disappoint as mass media started convincing people that our government was the problem, rather than the lousy politicians that we ourselves elected and that we did not supervise during their tenure.
Democracy demands an informed and engage public, and instead the vast majority of Americans learned to distain and ignore it. Me, me, me was more important.
See where that got us.
We ripped up our US Constitution and allowed, probably the ugliest imaginable ugly American, to become master of Amerika.
To me that’s where apathy about fundamental reality (Earth’s, or societal processes) leads, no matter how much philosophy one couches it within.
@unimportant I think I know what you are driving at. It’s about balance.
For instance, of course, like all humans, I’m the center of my world, and my wellbeing is foremost on my mind.
But that doesn’t mean others don’t concern me. There’s a balance between self interest and family/community interest.
My life has lead me to a personal attachment with “nature,” plants and animals and landscapes and even weather (that one time friendly adversary), the way I have attachments to my children and other loved ones and the greater community I’m a part of. Earth and her wonders have become a part of my community and family.
Most all of us know about attachments and obligation to family and others and how we make accommodations for them. The reality of finite means, demands personal sacrifices to meet our (¿assumed?) obligations toward others. Fair Play and all that. (Although guess that’s another antiquated notion that has no place in today’s society.).
In any event, seems to me if more people had taken on a sense of kinship and its associated responsibility towards this Earth - that created and sustains us - we wouldn’t be in the middle of this slow motion self-destruction mode we’ve locked ourselves into.
Well Lee Smolin did make the point that if the universe is good at anything it’s making black holes. They’re more destructive than our greatest weapons. But nature is destructive period, it pivots on predation and extinctions. We could see the earth as a shrine to suffering. Many do. And just because we’re perhaps the best animal at causing chaos doesn’t diminish this context.
All good hippie ideas, right? Perhaps the best movie illustrating this view was Solyent Green made 53 years ago. The denouement is a beauty. I don’t disagree entirely with this thesis. Humans are killer apes, we’ve always had to face the fact that our capacity for creativity and understanding sits alongside our gifts for hatred and destruction.
It’s uninteresting to me. I’m interested in what people believe and why, especially if they derive their beliefs from philosophy. I’m curious to get a survey of philosophical theories and proposed solutions but like most here I have no expertise so it’s perhaps best to remain agnostic on most matters.
I don’t know enough about science to know if it’s the cause or solution to our problems. Applied technology, bombs, AI, the car, microplastics are all products of science. Seems to me we’re now in the unenviable position of relying upon the problem to try to undo the problem.
I don’t have much of a role in any of this. I can vote and I can donate money. I can try not to be an arsehole to others.
I used to be an international socialist and got into some decent fights with fascists and police (and yes, there is a difference). I’m no fan of untrammeled corporate capitalism. I’m anti-consumerist and a half-arsed minimalist. I own no car and virtually no appliances apart from my laptop. I don’t own a phone, although work has given me one that I rarely use.
We are creatures of temperament, and mine hasn’t been captured by science or maths. I wouldn’t infer too much from this.
Well it helps if you don’t have young children or live somewhere with good public transport. Actually now think about it, I have 4 close friends, none of whom own cars or drive.