For that I refer you to what I’m not privy to - the evidence that’s accessible to intelligent, informed, educated folk who believe in God. Some have chosen the Christian God by the way. The God we’re interested in is much, much easier on our sensibilities - not omnipotent or not omnibenevolent or not omniscient.
You’ve told me what it’s not. Now tell me what it is. Otherwise the word “God” is as meaningless to me as the word “Hod”.
I thought you’d know why intelligent, educated, informed folk believe in God. This is the OOO-God and the Christian God is a favorite pick.
To answer your question God could be bimoral (good and bad). A Deus malus (evil God) is a possibility that has been taken seriously. Compare now the Christian God to the Evil God. What’s your verdict?
You still haven’t told me what God is. The word “God” means nothing to me until you explain it.
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That’s not an answer.
God can be good or bad. Humans can be good or bad. Are humans God? If not, then what does the word “God” mean?
We started off by agreeing that God as omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent is not acceptable. I called your attention to dystheism, a perfectly reasonable position.
You’re still not telling me what the word “God” means. Saying that “God is neither good nor bad” is as meaningless to me as saying that “Steve is neither good nor bad”. Who is Steve and what is God?
Dystheism (from Ancient Greek: δυσ-, romanized:dus-, lit. ‘bad’; θεός, theos, ‘god’) is the belief that a god is not wholly good and can even be considered evil. Definitions of the term somewhat vary, with Dirk J. Human defining it as “where God decides to become malevolent”.
From the link I provided, provides info on what God is.
@Scorpion What evidence differentiates “a God that exists” from “a God that does not exist”?
From the link I provided, provides info on what God is.
Telling me that “God is not wholly good and can even be considered evil” isn’t telling me what the word “God” means.
@Scorpion What evidence differentiates “a God that exists” from “a God that does not exist”?
Take what I posted here (fridge & pastry). You can prove to me whether there is or is not a pastry in the fridge by opening the fridge. Both the pastryist and the a-pastryist can prove their position. Both bear the burden of proof. I’m hoping for the same from theists and atheists but what atheists seem to be doing is shifting the burden of proof onto theists. Open the fridge so to speak and prove to us there’s no pastry God. They can’t and threby hangs a tale.
“God” is clasically defined as an all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful being. The Eipucrean trilemma shows that such a God is unlikely to exist. Given so much pain and suffering in our world, God is malevolent instead of benevolent.
Again:
What evidence differentiates “a God that exists” from “a God that does not exist”?
Try answering this question. ![]()
… what atheists seem to be doing is shifting the burden of proof onto theists.
By your own admission the theist has the burden of proof so there’s no “shifting” going on. Atheism is not a positive claim about “God” with a burden of proof: a-theism (i.e. without theistic belief) amounts to a negative claim about theism.
Try answering this question.
I did answer that question. Show me the pastry inside the fridge (theism) or an empty fridge (atheism). Both pastryist and a-pastryist can bear the burden of proof. An a-pastryist doesn’t say as long as the pastryist can’t prove there’s a pastry, he’s an a-pastryist.
I suspect atheists can’t bear the burden of proof and that’s why they’re being disingenuosly evasive. They don’t have proof that God doesn’t exist.
I did answer that question.
Your “answer” doesn’t proffer evidence as I requested, precisely because there isn’t any.
… proof that God doesn’t exist.
Theists’ failure to meet their burden of proof for the claim “there is at least one god” is all the proof atheists require in order to reasonably reject – disbelieve – theism.
Your “answer” doesn’t proffer evidence as I requested, precisely because there isn’t any.
The same for atheists. If there’s proof that God doesn’t exist then kindly present it to us.
Again:
Define “God” and I’ll show that that “God” is an empty name (or imaginary).
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Let’s start with God as an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient being. Please note that intelligent, informed, educated people believe in such a God and that Christianity is a live choice.
The same for atheists. If there’s a proof that God doesn’t exist then kindly present it to us.
Atheism doesn’t always make a positive claim. I am an atheist (ignostic) and my claim is that I do not believe in any gods. I have not been convinced.
If you get stuck on atheism always making the claim that there are no gods you will never understand this.
It’s a bit like the charge “not guilty” in court. Which does not make the claim some one is innocent. There simply wasn’t a legal case to find them guilty under law.
Similarly I have heard no argument or had any life experience that would suggest a god or gods exist. Hence I don’t believe in God.
Now it is true that there are atheists who make a positive claim. And many theists prefer this account of atheism. But it’s only one version.
Yes, all that but the questions that interest me are
- Is there proof that God exists?
- Is there proof that God doesn’t exist?
Let’s define God as an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent being.