# Free Will: Does it Exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Metaphysics & Epistemology\ **Created:** [June 2, 2026, 12:30am UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200 "2026-06-02T00:30:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Frank](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/frank/32/216_2.png) [@Frank](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 4:41pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/81 "2026-06-02T16:41:25Z")
> [@FlannelJesus](#): > > One day something shifted my perspective and now it’s the one that makes the most sense. Really? Could you say more? How are they compatible? ---
**Author:** ![felipec](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/felipec/32/759_2.png) [@felipec](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/felipec)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 4:44pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/82 "2026-06-02T16:44:38Z")
> [@Michael](#): > > If physicalism is true then willing my foot to move is a physical event; it’s the appropriate neurons in my brain interacting with one another. No it’s not. The neurons in your brain firing are physical, what you call “conscious will” is not. Just because your brain concocted some idea doesn’t mean that idea is physical nor real. ---
**Author:** ![FlannelJesus](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/flanneljesus/32/595_2.png) [@FlannelJesus](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/FlannelJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/83 "2026-06-02T16:45:53Z")
My thought process doesn’t start by trying to find a compatibility, but instead by looking at the options in front of me. On the one hand, I have people saying determinism is true. On the other hand, I have people saying it isn’t true (and therefore, some of them say, we have free will). When I looked at those two options, I realized that “we have free will” doesn’t really make sense just because determinism isn’t true. If determinism isn’t true (and what I’m about to say is certainly controversial), then that means there is randomness. And randomness is not a source of freedom. Randomness is just random. In a deterministic world, it’s said that we’re a slave to causality, to physics. Isn’t that also true in a world with randomness? Wouldn’t we just be a slave to (physics + some randomness)? My intuition says randomness leaves us no more free than determinism. And that train of thought leads me to trying to figure out what we mean when we say “I feel like I have free will”, or “I’m experiencing the ‘illusion’ of free will”. What are people talking about here? I can’t go through my entire thought process in this post, but that’s how it starts. Eventually I realize that the thing people say they feel when they feel they have free will has nothing to do with determinism being false. ---
**Author:** ![Michael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Michael](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Michael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 4:48pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/84 "2026-06-02T16:48:48Z")
> [@felipec](#): > > The neurons in your brain firing are physical, what you call “conscious will” is not. Compatibilism is the position that free will is **compatible** with physicalism and determinism. Your response is “physicalism is false”. That’s not an appropriate response. I am arguing that **if** physicalism is true and so **if** our conscious will is nothing more than (causally determined) brain activity **then** free will can still be maintained — because this conscious will might still be causally responsible for our behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Leontiskos](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/leontiskos/32/712_2.png) [@Leontiskos](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Leontiskos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 4:59pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/85 "2026-06-02T16:59:48Z")
> [@Michael](#): > > If physicalism is true then willing my foot to move is a physical event; But now you have begun equivocating. In [this post](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/72) you literally talk about the term “my will.” Now instead of talking about that term you have switched to a different term, namely willing an event. The term “my will” and the term “willing my foot to move” are obviously two very different, equivocal terms. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/frank/32/216_2.png) [@Frank](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:02pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/86 "2026-06-02T17:02:47Z")
> [@Michael](#): > > Note that (5) says nothing about free will. You changed it from “free will” to “my will.” I mean, you’re basically off topic. ---
**Author:** ![felipec](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/felipec/32/759_2.png) [@felipec](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/felipec)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:02pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/87 "2026-06-02T17:02:53Z")
OK, so you don’t understand physicalism. Physicalism doesn’t state that everything that exists is physical, it states that everything that exists is **ultimately** physical. My idea of a pink unicorn is not physical, but it can be ultimately be explained by physical processes: neurons activated in a particular way. Even if you want to call my idea of a pink unicorn “physical” (defeating the whole purpose of the word) that doesn’t mean it’s real in any sense of the word. Your “conscious will” is as imaginary as my pink unicorn and both ultimately are just a bunch neurons in certain states. You mentioned these two “physical” events: 1. Unconscious brain activity 2. Conscious will But this “conscious will” is nothing more than brain activity, just like a pink unicorn, and every and all nonsensical idea that has nothing to do with reality. So no, you haven’t done any work to establish “conscious will” as legitimate, calling it “physical” means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Michael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Michael](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Michael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:07pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/88 "2026-06-02T17:07:22Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You changed it from “free will” to “my will.” I mean, you’re basically off topic. That’s where (6) and (7) come in ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/frank/32/216_2.png) [@Frank](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:09pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/89 "2026-06-02T17:09:16Z")
> [@FlannelJesus](#): > > I can’t go through my entire thought process in this post, but that’s how it starts. Eventually I realize that the thing people say they feel when they feel they have free will has nothing to do with determinism being false. I agree. There are aspects of determinism that seem to be beyond doubt. The same is true for free will. How can one side win in that situation? What if they’re both true in spite of the contradiction? What would that say about the universe and who we are? That’s how I look at it. ---
**Author:** ![Patterner](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/patterner/32/192_2.png) [@Patterner](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Patterner)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:10pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/90 "2026-06-02T17:10:48Z")
@Michael What is your free will free _from_? ---
**Author:** ![Michael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Michael](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Michael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:17pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/91 "2026-06-02T17:17:43Z")
You’re splitting unnecessary hairs over the difference between using a noun and a verb. If physicalism is true then me willing my foot to move is a neurological event. If this neurological event is causally responsible for my foot moving then me willing my foot to move is causally responsible for my foot moving. I have free will if my body’s movements are causally determined by me willing it to move in that way. ---
**Author:** ![FlannelJesus](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/flanneljesus/32/595_2.png) [@FlannelJesus](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/FlannelJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:19pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/92 "2026-06-02T17:19:40Z")
If you look at situations where people say “I did this of my own free will”, what are they talking about? Are they saying, “my mind was completely free of all previous causal influences”? Or instead are they saying something more like, “I wanted to do it and nobody stopped me, and nobody coerced me to do it or physically made my body do it against my will”? Free will means free from being forced to do something by some other thing, but also also means free TO rather than free FROM. It means free TO do the thing I wanted to. In that moment, I was free TO follow my will. ---
**Author:** ![Michael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Michael](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Michael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/93 "2026-06-02T17:21:50Z")
> [@Patterner](#): > > What is your free will free _from_? My body moving in ways that I didn’t will it to, like nervous ticks, or not moving in ways that I willed it to, like wiggling my ears. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/frank/32/216_2.png) [@Frank](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:26pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/94 "2026-06-02T17:26:21Z")
> [@FlannelJesus](#): > > Free will means free from being forced to do something by some other thing I think it also means having a choice. Of the possible futures in front of me, I decide which one becomes real. ---
**Author:** ![Patterner](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/patterner/32/192_2.png) [@Patterner](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Patterner)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:34pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/95 "2026-06-02T17:34:36Z")
> [@Michael](#): > > > [@Patterner](#): > > > > What is your free will free _from_? > > My body moving in ways that I didn’t will it to, like nervous ticks, Nervous ticks doesn’t sound like will of _any_ sort. > [@Michael](#): > > or not moving in ways that I willed it to, like wiggling my ears. I don’t understand. Do you mean that, when you willed your ears to wiggle, and they didn’t, that was your ears’ exercising their free will? ---
**Author:** ![Leontiskos](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/leontiskos/32/712_2.png) [@Leontiskos](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Leontiskos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:43pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/96 "2026-06-02T17:43:15Z")
> [@Michael](#): > > You’re splitting unnecessary hairs over the difference between using a noun and a verb. Equivocating between nouns and verbs is actually a big problem. “Will” is a noun. “Free will” is a noun. Pretending they are verbs will not do. Claiming that the human will is an event is a category error. Claiming that the human will is a set of acted-out verbs without any acting-out noun behind them is bizarre. The “responsibility” that your argument depends on requires nouns. If someone denies that the human being or the human will is a noun, then they will not be able to generate any form of responsibility (or even a locus of causal activities). Similarly, to say that, “X is responsible for Y,” requires the premise that X is an agent, strictly speaking. It implies, “X can be held responsible for Y” (“Gary can be held responsible for his action”). Of course we can use the word ‘responsibility’ in a metaphorical sense when we say things like, “The storm was responsible for the lightning strike,” but this sort of equivocation would not be permissible in philosophical argument. ---
**Author:** ![Michael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Michael](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Michael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:46pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/97 "2026-06-02T17:46:55Z")
> [@Patterner](#): > > Nervous ticks doesn’t sound like will of _any_ sort. > > … > > I don’t understand. Do you mean that, when you willed your ears to wiggle, and they didn’t, that was your ears’ exercising their free will? Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’m saying that if my body’s movements aren’t being causally determined by my will (like with nervous ticks, or failing to wiggle my eyes) then I am not exercising free will. Having free will is having the freedom (or “power”) to causally determine my body’s movements by willing it to move in that way. ---
**Author:** ![Michael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Michael](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/Michael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:50pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/98 "2026-06-02T17:50:28Z")
> [@Leontiskos](#): > > Similarly, to say that, “X is responsible for Y,” requires the premise that X is an agent, strictly speaking. It implies, “X can be held responsible for Y” (“Gary can be held responsible for his action”). Of course we can use the word ‘responsibility’ in a metaphorical sense when we say things like, “The storm was responsible for the lightning strike,” but this sort of equivocation would not be permissible in philosophical argument. You’re conflating causal responsibility and moral responsibility. I am causally responsible for knocking over and breaking a vase if I trip and fall into it. Few would claim me morally responsible. I haven’t commented on moral responsibility at all. I am only claiming that I have free will if me willing my body to move a certain way is causally responsible for my body moving in that way — something that can obtain even if me willing my body to move that way was causally determined by antecedent events. ---
**Author:** ![felipec](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/felipec/32/759_2.png) [@felipec](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/felipec)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:52pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/99 "2026-06-02T17:52:24Z")
> [@Michael](#): > > If physicalism is true then me willing my foot to move is a neurological event. You are presuming “me willing” is a coherent idea when it’s not. Your consciousness cannot “will” anything. That is precisely what we are discussing. If after moving your foot you come up with the story “my foot moved because I willed it to move”, that doesn’t mean you “willed” anything, that means you **think** you willed something. This is begging the question. You are constructing the question presupposing the conclusion that you can consciously will events. > [@Michael](#): > > My body moving in ways that I didn’t will it to That’s how your body always moves. The difference between a nervous tick and a “willed” movement is that you find the former much harder to rationalize. You attribute to yourself decisions made by your subconscious _a posteriori_ just like a boss takes credit for work his subordinates performed: “I did that”. But it’s just a story. Let’s test your “will”. Do not complete the following: “the sum of 2+2 is”. If you say your subconscious didn’t automatically gave you the answer, I won’t believe you. ---
**Author:** ![felipec](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex007/user_avatar/www.thephilosophyforum.com/felipec/32/759_2.png) [@felipec](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/u/felipec)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2026, 5:59pm UTC](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200/100 "2026-06-02T17:59:37Z")
> [@FlannelJesus](#): > > If you look at situations where people say “I did this of my own free will”, what are they talking about? That’s an equivocation fallacy. The notions of “shit” and “the shit” are different, despite sharing the same term. Just like “free will” and “my own free will” are two different notions. [Previous page](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200.md?page=4) [Next page](https://www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/free-will-does-it-exist/1200.md?page=6)