An explanation for the repeated failure of socialism

My original title for this thread was: The Magic of Money. :grinning_face:

You guys think we were poor and backwards when we were under Franco’s regime.

You also think we are poor now that democratic and socialist governments have governed us for nearly 50 years.

It is a prejudice we, who are Spanish-speaking folks, will never get rid of.

By the way, I think labeling Spain as “poor” in any part of our history is a bit excessive. We have never understood why you see us as “poor.”

Perhaps, we always had very reckless governments—the PSOE in Spain and the Justicialista in Argentina. They got into debt. I know we are not a good example of transparency and lack of corruption. However, I don’t think we are worse than France or Sweden nowadays, honestly ssu.

Furthermore, under Perón, Argentina had a big GDP, and many Europeans went to Buenos Aires to make businesses and become rich—something that was impossible in the Europe of that time.

If you ever visit us, I promise you will be surprised. How can we label them as poor after seeing cities like Madrid or Buenos Aires? perhaps you will say it to yourself.

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Ummm
 that’s not what I said.

And believe me, as a Finn I don’t have such prejudices against Spanish-speaking folks (especially as my wife is a Mexican).

Yet in the 16th Century under monarchs like Carlos (Charles) V and Philip II, Spain had a huge role in the European scene, far more important than during Franco. Many time battles like Lepanto and it effects are forgotten. That’s simply a fact.

Still, in the 16th Century there was no “industrial revolution” even if the Renaissance was transforming Europe from the Middle Ages. Spain was then an young country that basically just had finished it’s Reconqista from the Moors. The idea of using that gold to “invest in domestic manufacturing” is an idea that is realistic only centuries later.

The real discussion here was that when you have gold, money, that necessarily doesn’t mean that then you have power, especially long term power. Nations can often simply use that wealth to buy things and not take care of their own competitiveness (the Dutch Disease -effect). Venezuela and it’s dependence on revenue from oil is a prime example of this.

No, I don’t agree with that view. And the word emancipation is a very harsh word to use in our condition today. I don’t know how much authenticity we sacrifice because most people wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if not for a structured labor market and government regulations. This is not an exaggeration. We have a great example in the form of the hippies or the flower children whose attitude didn’t last even a decade, just a few years. There’s your free people not encumbered with a nine-to-five job. And they themselves voluntarily went back to the mainstream society.

And don’t listen to those who say you don’t need a higher education to succeed. They’re leaving out half of the story so you don’t come to the realization that the higher structured learning that they skip must be replaced by long hours of training and discipline in the business setting.
There really isn’t a short cut to an authentic life.

Just entertain for a second that we’re evolving into something new, or relatively new.

  1. Your own body is made of millions of individual cells, most of which are like plant cells in that they can’t move on their own. The exception is white blood cells which are like judge-jury-executioner cells. The rove around looking to destroy things that have been deemed threats to the whole. Would we think that these cells need emancipation? If not, why not?
  2. Bees and ants have formed colonies in which the majority have lost the ability to reproduce. The queen is the colony’s reproductive organ. Bees and ants are evolving into super-organisms. What if Homo Sapiens is doing the same thing?

The question I’m getting to is: how do we defend the value of emancipation and authenticity? Sure it’s wonderful to have those things, but why does everybody need to have them? Maybe everybody doesn’t even want that. How would you answer that?

To me, we can only understand the meaning of emancipation and authenticity if we’re with other people we love or like or both. If we all are into a system where life is arranged by the family, the government, the private businesses, and other miscellaneous groups and associations, then what are we emancipating ourselves from?

Like I said, I find this word strange. Babies cannot be emancipated for obvious reasons. The same with old people that rely on caregivers.